JD's Journal

Tommy D: The 15 Year Fight for Fair Live Entertainment

• John 'jd' Dwyer • Season 2 • Episode 14

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The price of a ticket tells a bigger story—and Tommy D is here to pull back the curtain. From a kid throwing house parties to the promoter behind packed midweek rooms and an award-winning club sound, his path was set for festivals at the Meadowlands. Then came a meeting that changed everything. Tommy recounts how a dominant player, he alleges, used its grip on talent, venues, and ticketing to force an ultimatum. He says the fallout didn’t just hit his business; it hit artists’ paychecks and fans’ wallets—and reshaped the live events market.

We go deep on how consolidation affects creativity, artist development, and the price you pay at checkout. Tommy lays out his case against hidden “rebates,” why artists often don’t see the true costs attributed to their shows, and how those expenses push ticket prices higher. He argues that when one company controls routing, rooms, and rails, new ideas struggle to breathe. The ripple effect is real: fewer choices for fans, slower growth for emerging acts, and a fragile local scene.

This conversation also maps a way forward. We explore practical reforms—transparent accounting, structural separation of ticketing and promotion, and real competition across markets—so artists can choose their partners and fans can choose where they buy. Tommy shares the grit behind a 15-year legal fight heading to a rare jury trial, the personal toll and motivation that keep him going, and why AI can draft assets but can’t replace human passion on a dance floor. If you care about fair prices, independent culture, and the future of live music, you’ll find substance and urgency here.

Stay connected for updates and resources to speak up where it counts. If this resonates, follow the show, share with a friend who loves live music, and leave a review to help others find it. Your voice—and your vote—can move this conversation from complaint to change.

Resources for this episode:

JD:

Hi, listeners, and welcome back to the JD's Journal podcast. Great to have you here as always. Now, my guest today is a New Jersey uh born club and festival promoter who founded his company, Juice Entertainment, and rose through the dance music and nightclub scene in the east coast of the USA. He later secured a major festival contract in the Meadowlands, which would have been probably the largest festival of its kind, certainly at the time. Tommy Dorfman had established a very successful business, which was poised to continue breaking new ground until another organization, Live Nation, allegedly moved in and acted swiftly to shut him out, triggering a legal fight that's now roughly 15 years going. Tommy's now positioning himself not only as an event promoter, but as an industry whistleblower arguing for fairer access, lower ticket prices, which I'm very interested in, and greater independence for regional event producers. On the eve of a fairly significant trial date, I'm incredibly curious and excited to have Tommy here to share his story. So, Tommy, I'm thrilled that you're here. Did I cover all the bases okay?

Tommy:

Your introduction's perfect. Thank you very much. And it's great to be on. And hello, Australia.

JD:

Awesome. All right. Well, it's great to hear, as I said. So look, I always start with my guests. I'm really curious. As I said, you've been fighting this battle for 15 years, and we'll talk about that. But I'm uh I'm always interested. Like, what's what's the fuel to your fire? What is Tommy Dorfman's greater purpose and what's the legacy that you want to leave behind?

Tommy:

Yeah, so the fuel to my fire didn't start out that way. It started out against Live Nation with an economic dispute. But over time, the information that I've seen from their internal documents that I have, um, and see fans just be for information I've seen, fans being getting ripped off every day. An industry I love, the nightclub industry, entertainment industry, destroyed by Live Nation. Um, independent promoters disappear, wiped out, acquired, hired, taken out by Live Nation. Artist development destroyed by Live Nation. Um, and then the ever increasing ticket prices for the common folks and regular folks that want to go to a show, that's what fuels me. And that's what continues me to fight this now. Otherwise, I would have thrown a towel a very long time. This isn't about me. Um, this is about this is way, way above me, and this is about other people, other people's kids like mine and the industry as a whole.

JD:

So, you know, if I paraphrase that back at you, Tommy. So if you're successful in all of this, well beyond your years, uh, what the consumers are going to feel is is lower prices and greater access to uh to entertainment and events. Is that did I capture that?

Tommy:

Absolutely. If my information is exposed and I get a joy trial, your tickets, tickets will decrease in the United States by 20 to 30 percent. They could overnight with the information I have. But how people these days in this economy, at least here.

JD:

And I'm sure this is a global issue. You know, I have a I have a global listener group, and I'm sure that this is it's curious to ask. I know that here in Australia, I I think event prices are off the charts, to be honest with you. And uh, and so you know, I I think that's the personal side for me, is I think I I love going to concerts and shows and so forth. And for the average person, uh, reaching into your into your pocket is a pretty painful thing for shows today. So I'm again super curious in terms of where we're gonna go. Like, when did you know? Like, Tommy, what was it that made it so clear to you that this was gonna be your mission and and that it was worthy of the level of investment and time you put into it?

Tommy:

Well, this, you know, again, wasn't my mission um in life. My listen my vision was to create a club empire like I did, and then create a festival empire as where because I had a plateau where I was going. Right. Um, this mission really came after years of fighting Live Nation in court, and then seeing the information that I've seen of theirs on the back end that is so disgusting, they're which I allege is their illegal rebate scheme that drives up ticket prices, wipes up independent promoters, and makes artists have to perform for them and gets ripped, they get ripped off at every single show. And all the money just goes, which I allege is illegal in the billions, goes just into live nation uh CEOs, um, and it gets passed directly on into their pocket, but directly onto the cost of the ticket prices to the fans, to the consumers. So that's when this became my my mission. I felt like I had a moral obligation um after seeing how disgusting the information that I have um is. I felt like I had a moral obligation to continue this fight, to bring it to a jury and bring it to the public.

JD:

Right. I understood. And and we're gonna talk more about that. I'm I'm keen to understand kind of where we're at, and certainly with this trial coming up, understand more of what's going on there. Do the um do the artists benefit from this practice or are they also the victims in this whole conversation?

Tommy:

Oh, the artists are the victims. Artists are the victims. This uh rebate scheme that our live nation runs. I allege, and I've by my expert, Dr. Richard Barnett, he wrote the book on the business. Anybody goes to college in the world for a concert promotion, you read his book, right? Um, which he confirms. The artists, they don't even know about this, they're not shown this. Who's it? Live nation gonna go to an artist and say, Hey, I'm ripping you off right this much money. Um, as I alleged, they inflate all the expenses and it gets passed on to the artist to pay for where live nation's not paying for it and they're taking in a term of a rebate, which then gets passed to the fans. So the artists, you know, live nation decides um which artist survives, what artist dies. And a lot of these artists are barely barely getting by. And meanwhile, on the back end, I have thousands and thousands of shows showing it. Live nation artists are losing money on all these live nations, high-fiving each other, CEOs making money. Um, yeah, so just a simple racket. I'm I'm from New Jersey. We we have a ton of mafia out here. You know when there's a racket, it's just a simple racket run by not smart people. Um, that's them. Um, just just gangsters in suits. That's it. Right.

JD:

Well, so so but if there's simple skim works. If you're successful, then then not only do the the um audiences benefit, but the artists benefit as well, I presume. Let's um let's take a right a step back. So, you know, you you've had an interesting career uh in this space, and I understand that you know it it started, you know, with these kind of house parties and so forth. But can you share a little bit of what your journey was? Like what how did this all start and what got you to this point?

Tommy:

Yeah, so I I ended up starting in the nightclub industry, not by choice. It kind of just landed that way. I lived on my own since I was 16 years old. Um, and I rented houses to survive. And to pay for those houses, I threw house parties. Um, so I threw underage house parties, um, charged people for to drink out of kegs of beer, um, paid my rent, and paid me to put food on my table and survive. That's how I got into the industry.

JD:

So basically inviting people into your lounge room for a for a dance party.

Tommy:

Right into my houses. And with house parties, you get kicked out many times. So at a lot of houses, um, because I'd be packing them into hundreds of people. And that's how I actually first started first got into the business. Um, then I would bring these people from the houses, you know, people I met, became friends with, and I'd bring them to New York City clubs, legendary ones like the tunnel, limelight back in the day, and I'd run guest lists, and they pay me like a dollar a head or something to bring people in there and um started to learn the industry and then realized like, wow, this is something like I really like doing. I like throwing these parties, but I want to do it like legitly instead of getting arrested for it. I want to um, I want to make this a career.

JD:

Uh so so you think they become a broker of audiences to existing nightclubs. Is that how I can think about that?

Tommy:

Um, well, I don't know if house broke house parties really go to broker into nightclubs, but uh that's how it ended up for me, you know.

JD:

Right, right. And and uh and these lists, how many how many people are we talking about on one of these lists?

Tommy:

So, like when I first started off when I was throwing the house parties, I'd bring like 100, 200 people a night on uh these these got little guest lists in the city. Um, but then I had a bigger vision to create my own parties, you know, and um and the success that I achieved over a lot of hard work with my team over a lot of time.

JD:

Right. Okay. Um, and so that evolved uh into you becoming a nightclub promoter. Uh and I believe you covered quite a few nightclubs in in your scope, including the famous and sometimes infamous uh Bliss Lounge in New Jersey. I believe that was a a pretty interesting venue.

Tommy:

Yeah, so I I grew um evolutionary promoter. I grew from uh throwing a first successful party like in around 1997 for a solo party, at least in New Jersey. Um, and then I became on a Wednesday night, because I got a Wednesday night uh because nobody uh partied on a Wednesday night. So that's why the club owner gave it to me. I packed out the first night with over a thousand people, wow, working months and months, grinding, passing out flyers 20 hours a day, inviting people to this party for six months. Um, and then I my name in the club industry is Tommy D. And then all of a sudden everybody's like, wow, who's Tommy D? So I had club owners calling me from all these different clubs. Clubs were pretty empty at the time, um, and coming in and packing the clubs. So I ran a lot of clubs through New York, New Jersey. I ran the legend, I was one of the directors of the legendary sound factory. I ran um Club Karma from the MTP Jersey Shore. I did Steve-O jackass parties out in um in Cancun, Mexico. Um, you pretty much name it parties through Miami, every major club on the house world. Well, it was called House Parties before EDM was cool. And then Bliss Lounge, ton of success. Um had the club packed six nights a week, lines around the block. Um from house music is my passion, but I had mashups, Latin, you pretty much name it, hip hop across the board with it. Um, won the number one sound system in the world um out of a club in New Jersey, and everybody said I wasn't gonna win. I definitely didn't think I was going to. Um, featured in a lot of publications. Did you know, I booked the Kardashians back in the day when they were like $2,000, $4,000, calling up Kim's mom. Um, from Paris Hilton, Snoop Dogg, DJ's Tiesto, um, Jonathan Peters. So, and then I became the top of my with a with my team's hard work. It took a team, not me. Um, with my team's hard work working around the clock 20 hours a day, um, we we built a pretty successful empire.

JD:

Yeah, it sounds like it. I mean, that that's incredible. Um, uh both the volume that you're talking about or the scale you're talking about there, but also obviously the acts that you were able to uh to attract. That's uh that's amazing. So I I do understand that there's uh uh a somewhat of a dark underbelly uh to the nightclub scene. It's very competitive. There is corruption in the industry in some spaces. Can can you share a little of your experiences in that in that environment?

Tommy:

From the current day or the past.

JD:

Oh, the past.

Tommy:

Yeah, so from the past, um, it was a little cutthroat, but you know what? There were so many independent promoters, right? We didn't really we battle a little bit here and there, but I packed out so many venues, they'd go pick out pack out another venue. You know, there was so much more independence, it was an open game, so it was a little cutthroat, but nothing more than any other business. The biggest thing out of New Jersey was the mafia. Um, because in New Jersey and New York, we have a lot of mafia. So the biggest thing I had to fend off back in the day was just the mafia. That was my biggest thing I had to fend off all the time, which I was able to succeed and fend off and never had to pay them a dollar. Um, but that was the biggest challenge was fending off the mafia back in the day.

JD:

Right. Okay. And and so let's look at the evolution because obviously things have changed, right? Things have changed dramatically since then. It's not the open market that it was. So can you kind of share a little bit of the of the evolution or the the the de-evolution, if you like, of the industry that's going on?

Tommy:

Yeah, so um, like the mafia, the one good thing with them is I fed them off, they they threatened me, but they let me continue to do business. Right. Um then live nation and ticketmaster merged, and with that merger ended the independent promoters. Either, as their CEO said back then in 2010 or 11, Michael Rapino acquire or hire or lesser known organizations, especially in my field, the house music field, which became ADM, and his fear was lesser-known organizations were gonna lock up properties. Um, like my festival space at the Meadowlands before Live Nation did, because they were behind the eight ball. So Live Nation acquired almost all the independence or wiped them out. Um artists. There used to be so many artists, artists developing. I developed so many artists, and you'd be developing all the time, and producers would be doing it all the time, and that artist development got destroyed. The whole club scene, the whole artist development scene got crushed and killed and destroyed as Live Nation. I think that's one of their ticket master Irving Azoff. That's one of their top made the merger happen. That's what's crushed, kill, destroy the competition. Actually, that was his quote, but I didn't even mean to say it. Um, but then the whole scene was destroyed, and then the fans really paid the price um because now they just pay it on these super, super high ticket costs that uh is dictated by one company. There is no before there was an entertainment industry. You had independents like me that we were and many others. We are creative. We could think of these crazy theme parties, we could think of how to develop this artist. We had so many ideas. We can make Wednesday nights happen, we can make Tuesday nights happen. Right. When live nation took it all over, now it's not there's no more entertainment industry, it's the live nation industry. They destroyed the whole scene just for the benefit of their pockets and I guess their shareholders. Um, and that's really where it is today, and at the detriment of the fans getting ripped off every day, right?

JD:

Well, it sounds very common in in a lot of industries, this notion of you know a player coming in and effectively consolidating, and once they establish a level of share, then then they start to write the rules. They start to write the the prices and the and the terms themselves as they do that. Um that's that sounds very typical. We saw similar things happening in in my industry, in the in the IT industry as well, uh, where you saw that kind of behavior, maybe not to the same extent that you're describing, Tommy, but certainly some of that. Um, and so that's that's the battle, right? That's the battle is to kind of break that up or at least um uh enable uh independence to be successful or enable other organizations to be successful, which I think is incredibly interesting, uh, but I can imagine it's gonna be a challenging battle. I want to go back a little bit again and and kind of understand where you were headed. So back to the 2010 era, um, and you're now embarking on building a business around very large-scale music festivals or music events, particularly in the Meadowlands uh sports complex in East Rutherford, but but I think that's not the only space you'll focus on. But what was your what was your vision for Meadowlands? Like what was your vision in terms of that business?

Tommy:

Yeah, great question. So at the time I came from the music called House Music before it was called EDM, right? Before it was cool. And I saw that EDM house music was gonna turn mainstream, which it did. I predicted it. This I was one of the pioneers of this industry. And my vision was uh the metallands, just so you know, where I was putting this on, was at the the my fest. I hit a plateau. I got to the top of the club industry, I couldn't get any bigger. Right. If I wanted to excel higher, I needed to put festivals on. And I saw it was the right time to do so. And I partnered with the state fair at Meadowlands at the Meadowlands Stadium, it's the largest fair in the um East Coast, over 500,000 attendees, 150 plus rides, turnkey operation. Owner Al Dorso, awesome guy, built a massive concert space. Partner with him for a 10-year exclusive deal over four weeks a year during the concerts or the festa his fair season to produce all concerts, all festivals. My start off was the was House Music EDM Festival, which I was putting on the biggest EDM festival in the East Coast um at the time until Live Nation found out about it and wiped it out in a snap click of a button.

JD:

So so how does that work? I mean, when you say, you know, they came in and wiped it out, what does that look like, Tommy?

Tommy:

Yeah, so um for me, what it looked like was I uh randomly got a phone call from the owner of the State Fair Meadowlands outdoor cell. Said me and my partner attending to Brooklyn. I remember it was like February 16th or 18th, 2011. Said, boys, what the fuck did you do to be? He's the nicest guy in the world before that, screaming young. What do you do to piss Live Nation off? Now, just so you know, I didn't know who Live Nation was. Right. Sound crazy these days, but back then in my scene, Live Nation was never involved. So I heard of them, they did rock and roll, but they were never involved in my scene. So I was like, what are you talking about? Live Nation's gonna block all your artists, unless Live Nation becomes partners in this event with you, they're gonna block all your artists worldwide. I had Tiesto, the number one DJ in the world at the time. Um, my partner that I brought in uh was so close with Tiesto. It was like basically back in the day, like if you wanted Mike Tyson, you just hit up Don King. That was my guy, John DeTo. Um, they're gonna block Tiesto's dates worldwide. They are bad mouthing you to the powers it can be at the Meadowlands Sports Authority. That's his landlord, the people that own the Meadowlands. Yeah, they want you out, they're trying to kick you out, and they're gonna block all your tickets from Ticketmaster um for your festival. Um, they want you out unless you partner with them. So he asked me to go meet with Live Nation um executives, which I which which then I did.

JD:

Right. So I guess in theory, they saw an event that was so large they couldn't they couldn't avoid or couldn't let it go as an opportunity for them to uh to to get involved or or or take it over effectively. Um this is an inflection point for you, right? This is the point where everything changed for you. Um so so from that point, what happened?

Tommy:

So then I took uh at the request of Al D'Orso, the owner of the State for Medellins, a really great guy. I took his request and I respected his request and took the meeting with Live Nation Entertainment at their headquarters in New York City, which their CEO claims is their biggest market in the United States, with their president of talent, Jason Miller, and their VP of talent, Johnny D. John D Esposito, known as John D. Went into the meeting. Um, first I was just trying to offer them if you want to do some kid shows or do some rock and roll show here, let's just do it. You know, you can do it, you know, get involved and do it on that side. No, we want EDM. We want the house music. Um, and this is our stadium. This is ours. If you don't involve us to come partner with you right now, kick your two partners out, John Di Mateo and Vito Bruno. These are partners, John, just so you know that I only had a handshake deal with. Right. So I could have kicked them out, but I'm a man of my word. I learned that from my dad at a young age, so I'd never break it. They said if not, they will block all our talent from William Morris agency. William Morris agency was the largest, largest talent agency at the at the time. Um, I had a million dollars in offers into the William Morris agency for electronic dance music alone. Might not see much these days, but back at those days, it was a lot of money. Yep. They said they're blocking all the talent. They're blocking TS, so they're blocking any premium talent across the board. They told me that the Meadowlands was theirs. They were gonna get us kicked out through the sports authority. They came in like literally like savage, savage fucking animals, literally, attacking, attacking, attacking. Um, every time I tried to defend us a little bit, that like you know, we we have some power, some juice, they just came come in. There's loopholes in your contract. We're gonna get you thrown out through those loopholes. You know what the loophole was? I needed to secure talent by a certain time, which I alleged in our trial they blocked. Um so then they after everything, they said, me fighting back, we'll block. Well, you know what? If not, we'll block your tickets from Ticketmaster. Now I I said, How the hell are you gonna block my tickets from Ticketmaster? I've done business with Ticketmaster. They said we own them. I thought they were lying. Until I went outside and did a Google search after and realized they own Ticketmaster. Uh yeah, then I knew I was in a lot of trouble.

JD:

So they they definitely had the leverage by the sound of it, uh, to be able to do that. Um so looking back at that time, uh Tommy, is there like is there lessons that you've taken away from that period that that that have changed you? Is there is there things that happened then that you would have approached differently with the knowledge you have today?

Tommy:

No, actually, you know what? And like a lot of people ask me that, but there is no there's nothing I learned, and there's nothing that I would have changed because I I learned from my dad. My dad passed away when I was young. Right. Um, like towards the end of his years, he started doing getting successful in construction. And um, years later, after he passed, I met so many people that were like, yo, um, your dad made a handshake deal with me for like $50,000 for a driveway or $50,000 for this construction-wise. And he could have just screwed me over and he took care of me every time. So I, you know, my dad's always been an idol of mine. And for me, a handshake deal is the same as a contract deal. So I would never break my word on a deal like that. Um, so even though how much struggle this has been, um I'm glad what I did. And if I had to do it again, I wouldn't have changed a thing. Because why am I gonna let a bully come in and threaten me, attack me like crazy animals, um, ambush me, in their own words, um, and and have to partner with them? I don't want to do business with uh alleged criminals.

JD:

So if you have the court case coming up, and we'll talk more about that in general, but but you know, if if you're successful, you know, what does success look like? If you envisage uh a positive outcome um for you, but also for the the greater good, what does that outcome look like, Tommy?

Tommy:

For me, I don't really care anymore to be realistic with you. When it started off, this was an economic dispute. I wanted, I might have been naive, but I wanted my I wanted to get paid. Right. I want my the live nation allegedly destroyed my whole entire reputation and career. Um, I'll prove it at trial, they did. I wanted my festivals back. Um, I have their executives, top executives on tape recording confessing to this. I thought that turned over in Discovery that live nation would have just gave me, and I guess naive, gave me my festival back, threw me some money to get back on my feet and apologized. Um as time passed, as I said before, the information I've seen, which I allege is their illegal rebate scheme that causes the ever, ever rising ticket prices, the end of independent promoters at Live Nations Choice, and the end of artist development and new artists. Um, and then really just the biggest for the fans. Then this for me became a bigger picture. Um, and that's why I've continued it. I have uh six-year-old, I have an 11-year-old. My 11-year-old wants to get into the concert business. I told him, Yo, his name is Robbie D. I went with the rhyme like mine. Um, said you can't do it. I was told to go to college by my mom, by my sister, and I told him, I'm not going to college, you know, but clear a club club empire. I said, you know what? You're going to college. Unless daddy's case does something or something happens, you can't make it in this business. But it's not just him. There's so many other kids that can't make it, can't get their careers, artists, independent promoters, and then mostly the fans, the consumers. If you the information I have, seeing it and how disgusting is what they do. To me, I'm like one of the first victims of a live nation ticket master virgin, probably not the first, but one of them. Most of the other ones, since then, they've been wiped out or acquired, and most of them were wiped out and can't speak out, you know, or what wouldn't speak out. And I don't blame them. So I feel like my voice now, um, and I was quiet for 14 something years, but I couldn't get a trial date. And my witnesses, uh, I you talked about, you know, parties before, house parties. We went, we would, you know, it's crazy times. Most of them are not in the best, you know, best thing, you know, best shape, party a lot. So my fear was the witnesses would get a little bit older, you know, and you know, or get too old that they won't be able to make it to a trial, right? So I'm really um again, circling back here, I'm doing this now for the music scene in general and really for the fans. And if and this isn't a US problem, this is a worldwide problem. This is an Australia problem, UK problem, Canada problem. Live nation ticketmaster is a worldwide problem. And I allege they run a worldwide racket scheme. Um, that I believe that I'm the only one who has the information and the only one willing enough to speak enough about it. That in front of a jury presented, I believe it will shut Live Nation down permanently, not break them up like the DOJ merger. I believe it will shut the company down.

JD:

So that's my mission. I mean, you mentioned Australia, which is where I'm at. Um and so I don't think the average person in the street in Australia would have a clue who Live Nation is either, but we certainly think all of us know who Ticketmaster is. Um, and I think we have a love-hate relationship with Ticketmaster to some degree because their website sucks as well. But but you know, we see them as an organization that's selling us very expensive tickets. Um I think most people know who they are. I I guess though, the I guess the question I'm going through my mind, Tommy, is that if not Live Nation, if not Ticketmaster, um, you know, it's a again, I want to acknowledge that it's not an unusual practice to see organizations want to consolidate and own an industry or own a space to maximize their profits on it. So I'm really curious, you know, what what what has to change from a legal and an industry perspective to make sure that this, even if you're successful with Live Nation, that this doesn't just move on to the next organization who wants to do this. What does the industry need to look like? What does the law need to look like to make sure that it's a fair playing field?

Tommy:

Well, live nation, just when it was created, just you know, it was spun off as a great question just asked. They were spun off by a company named Clear Channel Entertainment that was shut down for being a monopoly. So if Live Nation were the DOJ is looking to break up Live Nation and Ticketmaster in the United States, which I full support support them, the FTC is suing them now. Um, I full support for that. But I feel it needs to go further. I feel you feel you need to do two things, one or two things. Either split live nation into many pieces of of a bread that you can chop, chop, chop up as many pieces, so the independence can thrive, the artists can then thrive again, and the scene can thrive again. And fans can have choices. Um, an artist then can decide can I instead of right now, you have a choice. You have a global tour, you perform for Live Nation, you charge what they want, you play where they want, you take their expenses, or no show for you. But what if there's 10, 15 other promoters back when I was in industry how it work? What if there's 10, 15? And now, wait, this one has better production. Wow, they got better theme parties. Wow, and you know what? Their costs are lower. I can lower my ticket prices, have my fans be all excited, I can do more shows. How many shows can a regular customer go to right now? You pay a thousand dollars for a show, how many can you go to? How many clubs can someone go to after you pay for a nosebleed bead for a thousand dollars? So for the industry to thrive, that would be one. The main thing I would look for, and I believe information I have could show it would be a complete shutdown of Live Nation, a closure, like an Enron in the entertainment industry. For the information I allege that I have that shows they're they run just a racket. And on that basis, in the pre promoters that come out of the woodwork, they start, it causes creativity. They start working on building clubs, building artists, developing artists. Fans start coming out to those. Clubs. Fans start to going to all these different new artists. And then overall, ticket prices go way, way, way down. That's the that's what I envision, and that's what I hope for. It may be a big hope, but that's what I envision and hope for.

JD:

No, I get that. And it makes perfect sense, Tommy. But again, I you know, not to belabor the point, but I feel like, okay, so you know, assuming you're successful in your battle with with Live Nation, my concern would be who comes next? Who's who's the next kind of heavily funded organization that wants to own the industry? And so it it feels like there needs to be a change in competition law and oversight to make sure that that you just don't have the next monopoly or the next the next major player come in and do the same thing. It'll be really interesting to me uh to see where this goes in terms of what protections are established um to make this happen.

Tommy:

I um my next question was going to be my apologies, there should be protections put in place, but I'll just say this to you. I was in the business for 15 years. Right. And before Live Nation and Ticketmaster emerged, the industry was thriving and there was no issues. So it was 15 years, and there was no other company shutting everybody out and causing these high prices until this happened.

JD:

I I get it. No, I totally get it. But again, I would say that there are parallels in the IT industry where we've seen consolidation that's been, you know, somewhat unfair. And the DOG has J has taken action on some of those. Um, we've seen it certainly in streaming television. I know that there's acquisitions going on right now, in fact, that I think are questionable in terms of you know the independence and the and the variety. I think it's a very, very common capitalist scenario where a large, heavily funded organization says, I want to control more of this, I want to, I want to have a bigger slice of the pie, and I want to be able to lock out the small guys so that I can own this business and maximize my profit. I think it's a very, very normal situation. But it's it's competition law, and in the US, the the DOJ who typically step in when that behavior starts. So I'm curious in terms of if there's a positive outcome from this court case, what are the provisions that are going to be put in place to make sure that this doesn't just repeat itself?

Tommy:

Um well, that one I would leave up to um, you know, a lot of thought and congressmen and fans to put out that and antitrust experts that I deal with these days. But I would just say right now, a lot of the industries, I totally respect what you're saying. I don't like monopolies, yeah. But I allege live nation is doing it by the whole illegal rebate scheme that's not happening in other industries that I know about, where it's directly passed on to the cost of the fans through I allege, a multi-billion dollar scheme. Um, so I believe it's a totally different playing field that we're talking about. Because it to me, it's basically like the mafia, it's a mob-run community. The mafia is doing it. Uh, you know, obviously that the mafia got you know convicted for doing illegal stuff, right? Um, this is way worse than what the mafia did. The mafia, it's like a mob run community. And you know, when if the mob runs a community, it's not good. Um, but at least you know what? Out of New York and New Jersey, we have five families. At least they compete with each other. It makes competition. You know, what we have the five families, there's competition. Um, with live nation, there is no competition. I allege the godfather of the live nation crime family, Michael Rapino, runs that crime family, and there's no competition, and he's got so much power. In recent days, he went out with the DOJ and FTC putting lawsuits against him. Also, for COVID funds potentially being illegal, which is criminal and could be racketeering and go to jail for. John Gotti from you know the crime family, he wouldn't get on TV at that time and say, let's raise ticket prices. Michael Rapino feels he's so powerful, which he is, and live nation is that he came out and says ticket prices are too low, let's raise them. How does Australian fans feel about that? How do American fans feel about that? Go to MetLife Stadium, get on stage, Michael Rapino. So let's raise ticket prices. I want to see how it goes. So that's pure power. So I believe any other organization will never have the power that Live Nation has, because as I allege and I will prove, they do it through an illegal method.

JD:

Okay. Again, that's going to be very interesting to continue to follow. Um, you know, I was gonna ask you why should the listeners care, but I think we've done a pretty good job. I think you've done a great job of of uh articulating that you know this has a direct impact on ticket prices, it has a direct impact on your access to artists and and supporting the growth of new artists and the venues and so forth. So I think the the reason why the listeners should give a damn is pretty damn clear. Um, I guess the question is what what can we do? As the listeners hearing this story and understanding what's going on, is there action that we can be taking on a day-to-day basis that's gonna support a fairer marketplace?

Tommy:

Yeah, it's a great question. I've had a lot of people ask me that, and I'm like, support me, you know, um, support me, share it, share it on socials. Um, and I also say, you know, you can't protest Live Nation. And the reason being is like, you know, my mama told me protest live nation. How are you gonna protest them? Kids can't go to a sporting event, they can't go to Disney on ice, they can't go to a concert, they can't go to WWF wrestling. So I don't ask anybody, uh WWE, anybody to protest Live Nation in that stance because you're locked out of society, right? Um, but what you can do is Live Nation spends a lot of money through all countries on lobbyists. But in Australia, in the United States, what do fans do? We vote. We vote, we put you in office. So I am now launching um at my website, it's uh juiceentertainment, Tommy D. Juiceentertainment.com, Tommy D. Juiceentertainment.com. But I'm launching a new website. Um first time announcer here. It's called shutdownlive nation.com. Shutdownlive nation.com and it has a list on there of in the United States of all congressmen, senators um that you can reach out to, complain to about live nation's practices. And pretty soon there's gonna be merchandise on there and not for profit for fighting the cause against Live Nation, where there'll be sure it's lower ticket prices, shut down Live Nation. Um, and you know what? I feel I'm one voice there's many victims out there. Um, I'm speaking out for on behalf of the cause. But you know what? If people start speaking out, and I don't ask the independent promoters to, I don't ask the artists to. I know Kid Rock came out recently and did respect to that, but most of them are knocked and wiped out of the industry, so I don't blame any of them. People always ask me that. But fans, you can go and fight, um, fight to your congressmen, fight to your senators. In Australia, I was on uh a documentary, AB uh on Four Corners with Vonnie Diaz, ABC Australia. And um, I know before that um your minister had said that dynamic ticketing, uh, he was just gonna leave it be, even though people were complaining. Um, after the documentary, um, I believe I had uh Peter Garrett, one of your one of your stars out there. I believe they stopped dynamic ticketing in Australia. I'm not sure, but I believe they did. If they did, I'm super happy. But that's that's the case of what fans can do. You vote for if you if you can you're in a democracy and you can vote, you can vote people in, you can vote people out, and express your voice. Express your voice to the politician, express your voice to the courts. And if you do that, you can make a change. And that's why I'm opening shutdownlive nation.com, and it'll be a message board where independent artists, um, independent promoters, fans, they can invent their voices too, but they can go on there, they can share information, they go speak anonymously, and this information then will be shared with the world instead of just uh there's not many people that speak out.

JD:

Look, I think it's a great call out. Yeah, I think it's a great call out. Again, I don't think most people have a clue who live nation is. Uh, we know who ticketmaster is.

Tommy:

You know who Ticketmaster is? Correct. Live Nation knows Ticketmaster, and they say they're two companies, it's just one. So if you don't know in live in Australia, you don't know who Live Nation is, it's called Ticketmaster. Same shit.

JD:

Well, and I think again, use of universally, when I talk to people out here, we're you know, we're pissed off about how much we pay to go and see a concert or to see a show or or whatever. So I think you know, I think you make a great point. I think we vote with our feet and we vote with our dollars, um, and we also have access to be able to uh to talk to our our our local politicians and and also we vote in elections, and so those are all good opportunities. I think most Australians would feel like I'm getting ripped off, but there's nothing I can do about it. And and of course, the thing that you can do about it is to be vocal and to act accordingly. So I think that's really, really great, uh, great advice. Thank you so much. So you um uh you've got this court case coming up, it's fairly soon. Uh uh you know, if if people are curious about this whole case, and certainly I am, what's the best way that I can follow uh what happens from here? How do I keep a pulse on on how this battle proceeds and and what you know what happens from this point forward?

Tommy:

On Tommy Djuicentertainment.com, Tommy Djuicentertainment.com, and on a website that I'm launching right now, shutdown live nation.com.

JD:

Okay, so I'll make sure we share both of those links in the notes for the podcast. Thanks for that. Um, so uh if this court case doesn't have the positive outcome you're hoping for, Tommy, you know, you've been fighting this battle for 15 years. Um, I still don't know where you get the tenacity from, but I I respect it immensely that you keep fighting this battle. Um, but if this court case is not successful, what now? What what happens then?

Tommy:

Well, I'm I'm where I'm at right now, I'm gonna have a trial. Okay, and I will have the first jury trial, just any of your listeners know this will be the first jury trial for anti-competitive behavior since live niche and ticket master merged in 2010.

JD:

Okay, so it's been a long time coming.

Tommy:

First one.

JD:

Okay, all right.

Tommy:

I battled 2,000 lawyers with one lawyer right now.

JD:

Well, um, you know, even if it's just because I think there needs to be a conclusion to this battle you've been fighting. Um, I I hope the case goes ahead, or the court case goes ahead, and I and I hope the the right conversations take place there, Tommy. Um, and I'm sure many listeners are feeling the same way. Um, I'm gonna ask you some fairly general questions. You know, you've had an in an in very interesting journey through your life. Um, I'm I'm fascinated by what you've gone through. Um, like if you could go back and talk to yourself back at the beginning of this journey with everything that you've learned along the way, what's the conversation you're having with yourself, Tommy?

Tommy:

In the journey in like 2010?

JD:

Or well, I mean, go right back, go right back to when you were having your house parties. If you knew what you know now and that kind of evolution into the nightclub scene, is there is there perspectives that you have today that you would want to share with yourself back then?

Tommy:

Um, well, besides like simple mistakes on when you're learning in the industry, everybody makes mistakes when some parties you're doing this and you're putting the wrong DJ on, or you're not sure what you're doing because you're learning what you're doing. I'd love to learn all those lessons. Everybody learning these lessons. But on the overall picture, um, I'm really happy with what I did. And I would go back to myself, besides the small lessons of things that could been more successful, because parties you can always be more successful. But the battle of Lab Nation, I'd go back and tell myself, do this exact same right thing because you're doing the right thing and you're doing it for the right reason.

JD:

So maybe the root the message is believe in yourself and and do what your your instincts are telling you to do.

Tommy:

And and and and also just uh be prepared to uh lose 15 years of your life, um, and be prepared to get your hair a little bit grayer. Um, and you just as long as your career has been be prepared to battle it in court. And um, yeah, that's that's what I guess I would tell myself.

JD:

Man, I gotta say, if my future self came and told me that I was gonna go on a 15-year journey that's been as frustrating as yours has been, I I think I'd run away. Uh so again, I I do appreciate and respect your conviction. I think it's amazing. Um, who's had the biggest influence on you?

Tommy:

Biggest biggest influence on me was my father.

JD:

Okay. And why is that? Why is that?

Tommy:

Um, because my dad showed me hard work. My dad, you know, I grew up in a you know, working class family. And my dad showed me what it took it was to go out and bust your ass every day, um, and then still somehow take your kids on vacation while you're busting your ass and do the right thing by people. Um, and that right thing by people, which was a lot of handshake deals, um, is part of the reason I do a lot of what I've done and stuck with those convictions that I have to today.

JD:

So, what would your dad be telling you today, do you think?

Tommy:

I think my dad would tell me as proud as hell of me. And he's thinking probably tell me as proud at proud as hell that you fought this hard. And he'd probably tell me, I'm sorry that you suffered and sacrificed so much. Um, and life's been so hard for you. And sorry that you lost your club empire and went door to door. You went homeless and selling cable uh door to door and before you were homeless, but then built a club empire and went beyond homeless. Sorry that all happened, and I wish it didn't happen to you because I'd wish the best for you. But you know what? You're doing a righteous cause, and now you're doing it for something way bigger than yourself and been doing it for a whole entire industry and for all the people getting ripped off, including your kids and everybody else's kids and fans every day. I think if you I'd look up in the sky and I think my dad's proud of me, it gives me the inspiration looking up there every day with him.

JD:

I I love that, and I suspect you're quite right, Tommy. I think that makes perfect sense. Um, as you look back uh on on this journey, um is the is there a most memorable moment, something that you hold with joy in terms of what this experience has had? And I I mean right from the very beginning of your house party sweet day, is there is there a moment where you go that was from a from a joy perspective, that was the peak?

Tommy:

I think probably that's a good question, but I there's a lot of them. But I think the most memorable moment was I was down at the winter music conference in Miami, right? And my club blitz was nominated the number one sound system in the world. Um, I never thought I was gonna win. I was like, wow, that was really nice to nominate me. I built the sound system, um, but that's the that's like winning an Oscar, like in those in the other field. Never thought I'd win. I was hanging out with Tommy Lee from Montley Crue. We're hanging out, drinking shots. Tommy Lee had to get carried out because he buy security. We were we were friends, we party. He had to get carried out being so lit. Um, so everybody else had suits and ties on. I was just chilling, my hoodie, hanging out, you know, chilling. And then they uh announced the best sound system in the world, Tommy D, Club Bliss. And that was probably the most memorable moment. And get up on that stage, everybody had prepared speeches. I didn't have nothing. I just got up there, I thanked my whole entire team, thanked the sound guy, and I said, let's all have shots and party. Um, but that's probably the most memorable moment, and it was uh it was uh it was a huge thing of like, wow, the hard work that not just me, but me and my team. Yeah, I had a huge team, had a huge team, and that team worked their ass off. We work, you know, people look at the club world, they think it's like you just chill, hang out with my wall here, chill with Snoop Dogg, Paris Hill, and drink and you're having fun. You're working 20 hours a day, you're busting your ass as an independent program. Um, so yeah, that was probably the most memorable, I'd say, for me.

JD:

I I love that. Uh, and and there's a little bit of resonance for me because my my second youngest daughter is a sound engineer, uh, a bachelor of sound engineering, and and uh, you know, although at a very different scale of what you're describing, I know how much passion she has in the way that she approaches her work and her craft. Uh, and I know how much she cares um about the the experience that the audiences have in terms of sound quality and and that kind of environment and so forth. And it and it shows, it shows in the work that she does. So while it's the scale's quite different, I can absolutely uh uh uh empathize with and and sense what that would have been like. I think it's an incredible experience. So thank you for sharing that. Um, I have a couple of standard questions that I ask all my guests in terms of of the wrap-up of the of the episode. And the first one's around artificial intelligence. And I ask this question because um obviously it's it's it's leaking into our lives in in many ways. In many ways, this podcast wouldn't happen without it. But I'm curious in your world today, um, how does AI play? And and are you an optimist or a pessimist or are you nervous about AI? What's your thoughts on it?

Tommy:

Well, I think there's a lot of positive, there's a lot of negatives. You can create flyers right now that could have cost me a thousand dollars for AI to generate. It's not there yet, the technology, but the negative part, it's gonna cost a lot of people, those, you know, people that were designers creating me flyers, jobs, you know. So there's positive and negatives. Um, I guess the biggest negative I would look at it is uh Live Nation just wants to put people on stages like uh just AI on a stage um and rip off more people, I guess I can look at. But um, I guess there's positive and negatives with AI, and I guess that the point is, I guess none of us really know yet. At least I don't, I don't think us really know where it's gonna take us. So I don't know.

JD:

I and I it's it's interesting you say that because I as I thought about this uh in preparation for this, given your passion about EDM, um, you know, and and electronic music in general, um, I would have think it's it's probably one of the most vulnerable sources uh to be impacted by the the generative approach to AI, the fact that I could I can take music from many sources and many creators and create something literally by doing effectively no work at all. Um you you I assume you have to see that as a threat for the artists.

Tommy:

AI is nothing compared to live nation. Okay. Because artist development, I think they believe you said a daughter, a sound engineer, they're passionate. Guess what? AAI ain't passionate, it's a it's a it's a fucking robot. You know, yeah, people are passionate, artists passionate, sound engineers passionate, independent promoters, passionate. That's real life, real passion. Yeah, what it takes to create a successful club party passion, to create successful theme parties. I would work on a theme party for a month. I created a whole entire beach out of a club, spent ten thousand dollars to put sand in there, but people think it happened overnight. That's a month. You know what? AI can't do that. So in the club, in artists in computer development, and you know, as a sound engineer back there, it takes so much passion to make something come there. And guess what? A computer don't have passion, ain't alive. So live nation is the existential threat to the music scene, not AI.

JD:

That makes perfect sense. Uh, and I like the the humanity there, and we it's come up a few times in the podcast where you know, I think what is gonna happen is that people will recognize that this is a creation from a human that has heart, that has feeling, that has emotion, or this is something that was generated by a computer that just doesn't have any of those. So I think the the parallel there is perfect. Um so maybe a hard question if you could only read or listen to one book for the rest of your life, what book would that be and why?

Tommy:

Good question. So I haven't read many books over the last 15 years except law books, because I have one lawyer and I battle a $36 billion company. So I read lots of law cases, lots of law books back on my wall here to fight against and battle live nation. It takes a lot of work. It's not just as I have a lawyer and I sit there and hang out, I'm working around the clock. So I haven't read many books. I read a lot of articles, I'll tell you that much on that side. Um, some people have asked me to write a book, and I guess being a little biased, I've started writing a book and I'm actually almost done. I spent about 30 minutes a day in my busy schedule to write a book. Um, so if my witnesses by old age do not make it, at least my story can be told. But I will go uh to my kids, I guess. A favorite book. It's called The The Garafalo. My 11-year-old liked it. My six-year-old loves it. Um, I love my boys, Robbie D. and Ryland D. They love it. And The Gorofalo is uh my favorite book then.

JD:

Awesome. Okay. Um, I'll make sure we put a link to that in the in the notes as well. I don't know that book. I'm I'm really curious now, so I'll check it out. I have grandchildren, so I'm very keen uh to learn more about that from that perspective. Um is there a ritual, a hack, or a habit that you've adopted that you think um has had a positive impact on your effectiveness?

Tommy:

Yeah, I would say through one thing through my whole life is you know, when you run nightclubs sometimes back in the day, you're running them uh sometimes 20 hours a day. Um, guess what? That means you only got a couple hours of sleep. My habit was a matter what. If I partied all night at a nightclub with celebrities, I'm up for work. I slept two hours, I'm up and working. Right. Over the years, if I'm selling cable door to door, running my business, then through the whole night fighting my legal case, and I sleep two, three hours, I got my uptime, work never stops. So my hack is work don't stop, you get up, you work. And that's that's I guess my hack that I that I'd say that uh helps me uh thrive and succeed.

JD:

I are you're a member of the 5 a.m. club?

Tommy:

Huh?

JD:

Are you a member of the 5 a.m. club? What time does your day start?

Tommy:

Um my day will start whenever it's needed. If my if if I'm up working on the case, preparing for a motion till six, seven in the morning, and I gotta be up at nine o'clock in the morning for another meeting for in my my cable business, yeah, or just go sell somebody, I'm there. Okay. So you sleep when you're dead, you know what I mean? So that's that's my motion.

JD:

I guess that's how how do you I mean it's a it's a great point, and I know you know that people do that. Uh, I think it gets harder as you get older, I'll be honest with you. Um how do you maintain your your well-being? Like I mean, that's tough on the body, right? Um, so what is it you do to keep to maintain your well-being, Tommy?

Tommy:

Well, uh, this is kind of a habit I have ever since I was in the club business back in like '96, '95. So it just, you know, it's became natural for me and it works, and I feel healthy and I feel great, and I'm ready to continue to fight.

JD:

Right. So you tuned yourself that way. Okay, fair enough. I couldn't do it, but you know, I'm I'm I'm rooting for you. Um, I've got a two-part question for you, Tommy. Um, when when you have those hard things to do, like you've got that tough meeting to have, or you've got that that prep for a court case, or or whatever it is that's challenging for you. Um, where do you go for your superpowers? Where do you get your energy from?

Tommy:

Yeah, great question. I get my energy from my boys.

JD:

Okay.

Tommy:

My Robbie D, Ryland D, Robbie Dorfman, Ryland Dorfman, my six and eleven-year-old. That's my energy. Yeah. I get it from them. I want to make the world a better place for them and um other people too, but especially for them. You know, I gotta be like boss. I love my kids to death. So that must my super energy comes when I'm down and I feel like I'm out, and I just got knocked out. And uh Mike Tyson just knocked me out five times. Live nation threw a lot of big swings. I look at I look to them and then it picks me up and I get right back up on my feet.

JD:

Yeah, I love that, Tommy. Uh, and and very relatable. Um, so let's flip that on its head. What's your kryptonite? What will take away your energy and and how do you overcome it?

Tommy:

Well, kryptonite be the same thing. It's my kids. Um bunch of times over the years, over over these 15 years, um, I'm supposed to take vacations with my kids. Supposed to be away with them in Orlando or Disney World or wherever it may be. Um, and I can't go. Right. There's a court hearing. Or I have to prep the court hearing because I have to do all the legal work on the back end. People don't realize when you only have one attorney. Um and those kids calling me up and like, Daddy, why are you not here? That breaks me. Yeah, that's the one thing that breaks me, is those two kids, they break me. Yeah, they make me and break me. But I don't blame.

JD:

No, so I get it. So so when you're you're when that time, that precious time is taken away from you because of this mission makes perfect sense. Um, again, I I'm hoping that you you have an outcome, uh, one way or another that allows you to to kind of rebalance that. Look, Tommy, the last question I've got for you is um is is there a quote, and it can be a famous quote, it can be your own quote or a quote from somebody you know, but is there a quote that you go back to um as an anchor or that inspires you?

Tommy:

Yeah, I think I guess like as myself, it's like it's really it don't matter how many times you knock the fuck down, it just matters how many times it just matters that you'll keep getting up and keep getting up and keep fighting.

JD:

Right, right. Well, you've certainly demonstrated that uh for 15 years now. You've demonstrated that that you uh you always get back up. And again, I respect the hell out of you for that. Um, Tommy, this has been a great conversation. It's been uh fascinating to learn more about this. Uh frankly, until you reached out to me, I knew nothing about this. And so it's been an incredible learning experience for me, and I hope it has been for the listeners as well. Um, I'll be following you. I'm sure some of the listeners will be following you as well in terms of the court case and what happens beyond that. Um and uh and I hope things go the right way. Uh, and and maybe we'll catch up again, get you back on. You can give us an update on uh on what's happened when uh when you've got an outcome or when things start to move forward. But uh but again, thank you. Uh it's been a privilege to have you on the podcast this episode. I will share the links uh that you give me and uh and and also how that people can reach out to you if they want to reach out to you uh by all means. And uh and and certainly, as I said, we'll probably find a way to keep the listeners updated in terms of where this goes from now, because it affects all of us. There's no question about it. Um listeners, thank you again for for joining JD's journal. It's always great to have you here. Um and uh and I hope wherever you are, whatever you're doing, you're living your best life. And please be good to each other. Talk to you soon, everybody.

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John (jd) Dwyer

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