JD's Journal
Everyone we know has experienced their unique journey of life, and along the way they have had their share of success and failure. Each of us have learned important lessons and gathered valuable resources that have allowed us to survive and thrive. This podcast is a place for sharing our stories and our resources for the benefit of others. It's a celebration of the resilience and tenacity of people in all walks of life, our local heroes.
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JD's Journal
Hanna Bauer: From Catheter Ablation to Culture & Systems Transformation
What if a life-saving medical breakthrough could teach us how to heal broken businesses systems? That’s the spark of this conversation with Hanna Bauer, whose childhood struggle with a dangerous heart arrhythmia led to a pioneering catheter ablation—and later inspired a powerful framework for organizational change. Hanna shares "I was the first child to undergo the procedure, which has since saved thousands of others” The surgery didn’t just restore her rhythm; it offered a blueprint for leaders: clear the noise, create a pathway, and let healthy energy flow.
We explore how Hanna translates that lifesaving experience into practical tools for executives and founders under pressure. She walks us through her HEART values—Hope, Empowerment, Accountability, Results, Trust—and how they underpin cultures that learn fast without fear. Then we dive into BEAT, a personal rhythm for alignment (Believe, Engage, Act, Transform) and CORE, an organizational growth cycle (Cultivate, Optimize, Reach, Elevate) that marries purpose and process. If you’ve ever wondered how to scale without burning out your team—or how to prune the work that drains momentum—this playbook is refreshingly clear.
Hanna also opens the curtain on Baldrige Excellence, a whole-system lens that helps leaders map seven interdependent business systems and close the gaps between siloed metrics. We talk about AI as an amplifier of time and insight—useful for surfacing buried documents, synthesizing surveys, and freeing humans to coach, design, and decide. Along the way, we hit real-world hurdles: resisting shiny objects, building psychological safety, capturing failure learnings, and staying consistent when results lag. Her simple, repeatable habits—like box breathing and weekly mini shifts—show how hope becomes a practical catalyst, not a poster on a wall.
Resources for this episode:
Hi, folks, and welcome back to the JD's Journal Podcast. As always, it's tremendous to have you here. I really appreciate you coming back on a regular basis and checking in. Um, today we have uh a very interesting guest. So uh this person overcame some significant challenges with a heart condition that frankly was so critical that her family was making end-of-life preparations. They were really preparing for the worst. And after a series of failed treatments and surgeries, um, thankfully, she finally overcame this through a brand new approach to surgery, um, which is called catheter ablation. It's very common today. Uh, you said, and we'll talk about that definitely as we go forward, um, because this is really saving the lives of many people across the globe today. Um, Hanna Bauer is subsequently uh translated all the learnings that came out of that experience um into a metaphor for the transformation of systems and businesses, and her journey of challenge, uh, where she's overcome the these really threatening situations through pioneering of new surgical techniques, really became a powerful metaphor for business transformation. And that's what's exciting me about this whole conversation. Um, Hannah is the founder of Heartnomics Enterprises who specializes in organizations and how they tap into authentic human potential through motivation, leadership, and sustainable change. And again, I'm gonna be really keen to learn about that. Hannah has buckets of certifications, John Maxwell seems certified. She's a disc consultant, which I love because I'm a disc consultant as well. Um, and she's a trainer, she's zigzag legacy certified, Baldridge Framework, which I've never heard of. Uh, and I'm gonna ask her to tell me what the Baldridge Framework of Excellence is all about, and then Lean Six Sigma Black Belt. So lots of lots of knowledge there. Um, so Hannah, how did I go? Did I introduce you appropriately? Did I miss anything significant there?
Hanna:Oh my goodness, you've been way too generous for for me, but thank you so much for your graciousness and having me here. Um, it's it's honestly a pleasure and part of what I love to do. So I love what you're doing. I love how you bring in conversations just about this and where we can be sit around basically around the table, around the camera to be able to talk about uh alignment and transformation and people. So thank you so much for having me, John.
JD:Well, I wish we were around the table. You're obviously on the other side of the planet from me. And we're just talking about the fact that it's evening there and morning here. Um, but I love the fact that technology today allows us to feel like we're sitting across the table from each other. So it's great to be here with you. Look, the question I always open up my podcast episodes with is the same question. That is, we've got a sense of what you do, and we're going to drill in more in more in detail in terms of what you do as an organization and what you do as a person. But what I really want to understand is, you know, what's the what's the fuel in your engine? So, what is Hannah Bauer's purpose? What's the legacy that you leave behind?
Hanna:Oh, well, thank you for asking. Isn't that quite the key question, right? I mean, so we can spend a whole lifetime looking to answer that. Um, and for me, it really is I think it's that drive to be something, be part of something that's bigger than myself, really. A lot of my purposes on that and in solving those complex problems. And and the way I have found that I'm able to do that is through the transformation with love and excellence. And it's been a journey that that whole leadership aspect that balances it that out, but um, in helping leaders, that that's where my heart goes, my heart 100% uh to help leaders and making those decisions and helping with that balance. And it's been a lesson that I have learned fully, not only in my body, but also in organization and in service and in leadership. So helping solve those complex problems, and I really do believe that love and excellence are a big part, if not the two major factors in doing that.
JD:It's interesting because I I've meet with plenty of people who do leadership development and transformation stuff and and so forth. And of course, in my corporate life, I was exposed to a lot of people who did that as well. And I have to say that rarely do I hear the term love uh as part of that. It's generally to do with the bottom line or productivity or performance or whatever. So I'm keen to get into that. I will say that the five love languages, um, which was then adapted for corporate environments, is something that I fell in love with all those years ago. And I I love the concept of that humanity that goes with that. Um, when did you decide that this was your purpose, Hannah? What was the catalyst for you to decide this is my reason for being?
Hanna:Um, actually, I will say when I found out really the impact of what had happened. I again I went through this illness, right, as a kid. Again, as a child, I didn't quite understand everything that was going on. I understood the pain because it was in my body. I also understood the people around me, you know, the the language and what they were talking, but I didn't really realize what all was going on. Um, I knew the heaviness of it because like, you know, reading it in the faces of people all the time. But in at the 20, there was an interesting point when I got a call from the children's health care of Atlanta, and it was 20 years later they wanted to do a documentary on my surgery. Um, that I realized, okay, this is what well, why? Not just a documentary, but um, they they had uh news on it, they did different things, but they reunited me with my doctor who actually performed the surgery, uh, reunited me with the staff that took me in, they took me back into the operating room, in some operating room to explain that. Um, and it was at that point when I heard him say that um they were trying to keep me alive long enough for technology to catch up. And hearing that that surgery had at that point, this is like 10 years ago, uh saved 3,000 other children, is when suddenly like that's it. That's that's what it was because I had to realize, well, what did keep me alive? And again, it was love, it was that passion, it was that hope that ignited that, and what the technology for technology to catch up, what needed to happen. A lot I saw a lot of failure, a lot of innovation, a lot of uh processes and systems, which is what I had experienced. And it was at that point that I'm like, oh, that's it. And it was painful. I mean, I lived through it, but realizing the impact that although it was a it's a it was something that saved my life and gave me the a greater quality of life, at that point had impacted so many more beyond what I could have ever imagined.
JD:That that makes a lot of sense. Can I get you to kind of take a step back? You know, I think it was 1992 the surgery happened. Is that right? Is that right? 92. Talk us through you know what you were dealing with that led up to that point in 92, and then maybe give us a little bit more information on the surgery that was so life-changing.
Hanna:Yeah, sure. Um, so I it was not congenital, it would there's no history of that in my family of any heart problems at all. But at the age of four, I started going through this episode, so suddenly my heart would raise, what is called a um tachycardia. But it wasn't just tachycardia where it would go really fast, it was also arrhythmia. So the arrhythmia came from the not being also irregular. So there were times where it would just go really, really, really fast, and it would even you would see my EKG with flatline, it will go really, really fast again, it would go irregular, going fast. So that those that's what that's what they would call episodes, and those episodes we didn't know what triggered it, don't know how long it would last. It could last uh from a few minutes to hours to days, and sometimes weeks. So you can imagine what it felt like was like uh you're running a marathon, there's no end to it. And again, there's no like I'm just trying to catch my breath. Um, in that in that point, and again, anytime that the heart would try to go into um back into rhythm, it would be very painful because what that looked like was flatlining, right? Basically, it was trying the heart would try to reset. So I lived that from the age of four until about the age of 14, 15. Um, so there was at the time there was no cure. They had tried drugs, they had um tried uh open heart surgery, heart calf. Uh none of that worked. I was already in the uh transplant list for um so to be able to you know give me a chance at life. But my doctor didn't want to do that because he said that my heart was strong, like the muscle was strong. And if it was I was to have a transplant, it would give me perhaps 10 years, assuming that everything went well, assuming that I had no rejection to whatever happened. So um at 92, this was just you know the heart catheterization was starting um to they they were starting to look at uh the implications, how to use different things, the laser aspect, the cryo aspect. So in me, they tried both. They tried cryo, which was was ice, dry ice essentially. Um, but then they were just just starting to the whole uh electrofrequencies, the electromagnetic, the very the what we would call laser. Um, so that surgery, the initial, the experimental surgery was 13 hours for that one. Now it's done in over 45 minutes outpatient. So that just tells you how much the technology has has changed. Um, but essentially, what did they do is what was happening, there were a lot of spots in my heart that were making the electrical notes basically be out of whack. It was chaotic. Uh, a lot of electricity going on. So, what they did, and this is what is so key, and this is what I take a lot for me and my life and to organizations, is that um what they did in the ablation was a process called catheter, like well, well, they're burning, right? Um, where the the ablation is actually they're they're burning parts of the muscle. Essentially, they're getting rid of things that you don't need, so that it created a clear pathway for the energy, for the electricity to be redirected in a way that it will help the body work well. And isn't that what we have to do as leaders in organizations? We're constantly creating clarity, we're constantly having to look at. We can have a lot of even great things, but we need to get rid of things many times, right? And that's what it only comes with a self-aware leader and knowing what you're doing, knowing your purpose, so that then there could be a clear pathway to be able to drive the energy, to be able to give life and flow to the things that we do. And that's what I do today.
JD:That's a uh a wonderful transition for us Hannah. And so, first of all, uh incredible story. I I can't help but I'm a parent of four and a grand uh grandfather of three, and I'm just walking in your parents' shoes, living through that 10 years of kind of not knowing uh are you gonna make it through this, and and observing a child, helplessly observing your child go through that experience. I I really my heart goes out to them as of obviously as you as well, but but you know that that helplessness as a parent is just the worst. Um, but the metaphor there is is powerful. I and and again I'm gonna paraphrase it back at you, but I think you know what I'm hearing is that in the in the business scenario, there are distractions, there are uh um resistances, there are conflicts and so forth. And so you've you've made it your mission to find ways at the systems level, at the people level, and so forth to identify and eradicate those things which are encumbering the free flow. Am I paraphrasing that accurately?
Hanna:Yes, and also the rhythm, because um, I mean, there's there is a place for tachycardia, right? I mean, it we it's not tachycardia is the the bad use of um the I guess being fast when it's not supposed to be fast, but it we need the heart to beat fast when we're going fast. When you're running, you want your heart to be able to pump, and you also want your heart to be able to rest. In the same way, there's a rhythm in business, there's a rhythm in leadership where you there's time so you have to speed up, you gotta know when to speed up. But if you do it at a rhythm, what happens? Well, what happened to me? You cut the breath out, you cut the life out, they start to be dangerous, it starts putting um stress on other parts of the body, and things start to shut down. So I realized the same thing happened, and I didn't even put it together until later on as an entrepreneur because I was like, I'm going through the same things. It started giving me flashback that I did when I was a kid, but this time I didn't have a heart disease, I was running a business, I was running an organization, and it was it felt very similar, eerie similar the same way.
JD:Right.
Hanna:And that's where all of this started coming forward.
JD:Well, that's the nature of systems, right? You know, uh the systems replicate life. So I think that that that makes a lot of sense. So let's do let's use that as a catalyst. So let's roll forward to 2017 uh and you establish Heartnomics. So, you know, how did that come about? You know, what what was the catalyst for you to establish this organization?
Hanna:Yeah, well, it it was uh when I got the call, it was 2015. So they did the documentary and then they did a whole feature story of that. So in what happened was through that point, um, I had gone through a business um going through what we call here in the US the Great Recession. Uh, it was in 2008, 2010. There was a lot of different financial problems, like budget freezes, kind of similar, you know, kind of like a bit of what's going on right now. There's a cover, you know, talks of like no money. Uh basically our clients were not buying, or even the the their product, what their orders they were taking back because the budget had frozen. So suddenly um we lost the ability to collect the money, or even like what was gonna look like in the future. There was what they called this new standards. So basically it jeopardized and made our product almost obsolete overnight and opened up to markets that were um with competitors that had national reach way bigger than us, and to what in open it up to our niche market was no longer a specific. Now everybody was able to play in it. Um, and then this other little thing called the ebook that started coming up, this whole digital thing in 2008, 2009, where 2010 they actually declared it as uh the death of print. So um it was an interesting time in trying to realize what a business plan would look like with technology we didn't know, with money or income of a client that we didn't know when it was gonna open up or even what standards were gonna impact us. So going through that, it opened up the um we I that's where a lot of my leadership lessons came. Uh, and out of that, in 2016, I had the opportunity to help a lot of fellow uh publishers as well. So that's where the consulting came in, that's where they started seeing um, because by 2013, we were getting recognition in the state by as Manufacturer of the Year. By 2014, I got a seat at the table at the national level. And by 2016, I was elected chair for the sector. Uh, so that it brought attention to what we were doing. It's like, hey, this is working in something we didn't know what it was gonna look like. So it opened up the opportunity to be able to consult with other uh organizations, to be able to share our knowledge. This is what we're learning in the field. This is you know, the questions that we have that are not quite yet answered, starting to collaborate with other people, trying, you know, coming up with solutions. What does this world look like in education? What does it look like with technology? So uh being to able to have a seat at the table, then that's what led to harnomics in 2017. Is like, hey, I would I want to this is combining everything I love. It's combining leadership development, business development, um, and really again, basically bringing back, I was able to help the industry with a very similar situation of what I went personally, where you felt like no oxygen, no money. Money is the oxygen to an organization, right? So it was like the same thing um in uncertainty. It was didn't really know what this was gonna look like, didn't know what the solution was like, and it was very similar to what I had gone as my life. So I was able to combine that in 2017 and really develop from it um to serve other clients, nonprofits, governments, uh, and just the private entities as well.
JD:So you effectively saved your own business using the mindset uh based on this, and then turned that into a consulting practice and then built it from that. Um can like can you share a little bit more detail on the like a couple of examples of the significant issues you were seeing and and the things that you did to fundamentally change the situation there immediately right off the top was the technology.
Hanna:Right. They didn't know what the technology was. So uh coming up with a business plan with a technology we ourselves didn't know how to use, um, didn't know how the customer was going to even value that because there was no clear history. Um, so trying to come up with something like give the customer what they were asking. They didn't really know what they were asking. So we were trying to figure out what isn't, uh taught me that I couldn't start pleasing, trying to please whatever they were asking. I had to ask myself again, what is our core? What is our purpose? How do we stay true to that? And it may look different, but we still have to stay true to our core, to what our purpose was. Once I got a once I took a grasp of that, it made even taking risks into new technologies, new things, collaboration so much easier because then I became uh grounded in who we were, in what our value add was, basically what our identity as an organization was. So that was a huge lesson for me. I was not gonna place everybody. I was I couldn't transform into what everybody else was asking me to do. They didn't know themselves what they needed and all this stuff. So I had to really, as an organization, be able to get a hold of that, anchor myself in it, in with our team. Once we knew our core, once we knew what our value was, then all these other changes, implementations came from that.
JD:And once you'd established your core, has that stayed constant throughout, or has that evolved?
Hanna:No, it stayed it stayed constant. It of course it looked different, right? I mean, it it went from having to teach entire at that time, it went from teaching entire subjects to maybe we're just teaching going smaller, what people were asking, to teaching objectives, and really how do you even teach objectives? You were really looking out outcomes, right? So instead of teaching from this is all it looks like, let's go, this is the outcome, and then let's go work backwards. So that's where it started looking a bit different. So it still utilized our expertise, it still utilize the different things that we learned, just we did it in a different way, and there were that's the way that people were moving again. Innovation. Uh, like I said, with my surgery, for example, uh catharizing was not new. I mean, people have been doing that all for years. I mean, the whole entire concept of burning to stop bleeding, burning to create new things is not new. It just wasn't used with the heart, it just wasn't used yet in that way. So, technology, a lot of times we think it's like, oh, it has to be this brand new thing. And it's not, it just means an innovation. It's just using what you have, but just use it in a different way, or maybe apply it in a different place. The same skill that is innovative, the same skill you have, maybe there's an adjacent market that is there and that you had not looked at it before. And although the disruption is happening, you can look at it and you realize that you have the solution that's needed for that. I mean, we saw that happening with the music industry, which was one of the things that gave us the example for us, you know, in the print. Like, well, what did the music industry do? You know, so uh, you know, as far as content from that, um, even what you're seeing now, even with the schools, with the way that um learning's happening with facilitation versus um lecturing, because we don't need that anymore. I mean, so it looks different. Again, it's not that you have all this new knowledge, it's that you're using it in a different way and you maybe deliver a different way, and that's the innovation that comes from it.
JD:Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And I and I presume along the way, as is typically the case in innovation, that there's trial and error. It's basically you attempt and you either succeed or you fail. And hopefully, if you fail, you learn something and you try something different, right?
Hanna:And that's the key with processes and systems, right? Because we can do that. And I mean, and I know I and I love my leaders who are innovative and like, hey, yes, we're gonna go for it. But if you don't have the processes and systems in place to be able to grab that knowledge so that because there's gonna be failures, you're never good the first time, it's gonna happen. I mean, I we live it. I mean, that's the way it that's how um coming up with something new or you're gonna fail a lot. But you need to have processes and systems in place to be able to learn from them so that way we we know what to tweak, we know where to go.
JD:I think that's the goal, and I and I think the two observations that I see in organizations that I work with is either they're too afraid to to fail, too afraid to attempt and fail, and I think that's very, very dangerous. Um, or that, as you said, they they haven't built a robust mechanism uh to take the valuable learnings that come out of failure and translate those into value. Um, and so I I'm presuming part of what you offer in Hartnomics is building those frameworks that enable them to take those learnings and and utilize them. Is that right?
Hanna:Absolutely right. That's exactly because that's that's the excellence part. We're called to be excellence, we're not called to be perfect. So perfection is gonna call you, you can never fail. Excellence is gonna call you to fail and learn from those failures. So, in excellence, in that that's part of what what I help people do is you know, get uh in with the core, their core system. Well, what is what is your core? You know, um, how do we start taking out processes that may live in people's heads, especially the founders' heads, and put it into actionable places? Because even in leadership, when we talk about leadership development, people are not gonna be a great leader just because they hang out with you. That's where the development comes in. I mean, you can show them, you'll be a great example, but unless you are intentional and how you're passing down, how how do we make decisions here? You know, if you are gonna delegate something, you have to be able to show how the decision-making process happens. What is a risk for us? What is a risk that we don't need to take? What is a risk that we need to take? What is critical mission critical? Um, so all that part comes in with the processes and systems. Are we gonna get it right? Absolutely not. I mean, that's we look at from the software that when software, that's why things go in beta. They want you to fail. Like the faster we fail, we call them bugs. It's okay. You know, we say, like, yo, what bugs? What thing happened that's wrong? We want people to fail, fail fast so that we can fail forward, but also grab and record those failure points. We need them so that we can come up with the actual solution and something that's gonna work.
JD:Yep, I agree. Hopefully, not making the same mistake twice is always the key thing.
Hanna:Hopefully.
JD:I have a fridge magnet here that I love, which just says always make new mistakes. And it's it's one of my favorites, to be honest with you.
Hanna:I like that. Always make new mistakes.
JD:So so with that, can we transition and talk about your book? It's Hustle with Heart. Uh uh 52 Mini Shifts to Maximize Your Impact. I assume that's intended to be one a week. Um, but can you tell us what is the what's the book all about and what are the give us some examples of the 52 mini shifts that you talk about in the book?
Hanna:Yeah, sure things. So mini shifts, because they're little, right? I mean, there's steps. I realized a lot. Um, I well, me growing up, I couldn't do many things other people could do, right? Like get up uh just on my own or go to school, even there were times where I was too high of a liability. Um, but I was always still committed to learn. Um, because if everything happened that everybody said wanted to happen to for me to continue to be alive, well, what was I gonna do with my life? Even at 10, I was thinking that, you know, you guys have movies like, well, people are doing stuff with their lives. What do I do? So early in time, and that's what the little book is about, it's about the many shifts. Um, because it all starts with belief. I had to uh and that's something even in my bed, and it doesn't nobody can stop you from believing, nobody can stop you from even analyzing what you believe. So I had a lot of time in my hospital bed to really start looking at belief, and that's one of the main things, um, the the initial things I show there. So the hustle with heart is my beat program, which is believe, engage, act, and transform. And engage is because you have to look at well, engaging with what are my resources? What do I have? So I had to look at, you know, with the people, what would it uh, you know, with other books? Um, are is there a program that I already have? You know, what do I have? I mean, now with the phone, of course, is very different than back in the 90s when you were like you didn't have access, it's whatever people brought to you. Um, but still, you could ask people to bring something to you that's engaging, so then then you can have to act, knowing that the smallest of action is gonna trample the greatest of intention any day. So that's what the action is. And really, transformation comes from does my transformation, what am I expecting for this to come? Like if I do this, what is the expectation? And does my transformation then match my belief? And if it doesn't, then I need to align. So it's the whole entire beat program. That little book is one a week, uh, one mini shift a week, and it's an alignment, it's for that internal alignment to believe, engage, act, transform. Um, actually to grow in one of the five areas, and that's from the heart framework, which is the hope, empowerment, accountability, results, and trust. So, depending on what you want to grow in, you know, maybe I need to grow my trust this this quarter, that's where I want to focus in. Uh, then I can apply beat to grow in trust. Or I can and maybe I'm a bit not hopeful right now. It's okay, it happens. But you know, what can I do to grow into it, to grow in my hope, apply beat. So I have a whole 10 many shifts on hope, 10 many shifts on empowerment, accountability, and so on. So you can purposely, intentionally every week grow in that.
JD:I love it. I love it. So that's a great segue. Um, thank you. You keep doing that for me. Uh so you've got heart, you've got beat, and you've got core. Uh so again, remind us, walk us through what's heart, what's beat, and what's core.
Hanna:Well, heart is the foundation of everything. So, heart is your values based. What are the values that this is like this? Came from working with many, many leaders over the years, and these are the values that I saw the successful people were repeatedly showing up, and that is the value of hope, the value of empowerment, accountability, which people think is just data. No, accountability is also community, it's results, uh, the way to be able to track what we're doing and then trust, which is really the basis of the relationship. So is the heart is the foundation that everything else I do in harnomics comes from that beat is a method, which is the internal alignment. So for believe, engage, act, and transform, which is what the book is about. But that's internal for the leader because we cannot give what we don't have, so that's for your personal growth rhythm. So you can get a rhythm with who you are, the purpose, and then core is the organizational growth cycle. So the organizational rhythm, which is cultivate, optimize, reach and elevate. So it's a way to align, but at the at the corporate level, at the uh organization, so that again, going back to cultivate mission visions, what is the foundation? Going to optimize this process systems. What do we need to do? They reach our internal and external customer and elevate your thought leadership for an organization. So those are the the three um that I work with: the hope being again the framework, beat and core being the methodologies, beat internal alignment, and core the organizational alignment.
JD:Yeah, I like I like those a lot because I like the simplicity of them. I think that they're memorable, the way that you've put them as well. Um, and and uh core I hadn't kind of understood as clearly as as you've articulated it now. But the way you've described it, I see core as a as a continuous improvement cycle, as a repetitive continuous improvement cycle. Yeah? Okay, yeah.
Hanna:All of them are based on continuous improvement. I mean, this is from my black bell six sigma what I had to do, but all of it is alignment, and if you think of it like a heart, uh it that's the same way I designed it was in be, believe, and engage as an internal and act and transform as external external, and same thing with core, you know, like just like you have two uh uh two um the the two parts of the heart that are in, and then the two parts going out, and same thing with the organization is cultivate and optimize our internal things that we do, and then. Reach and elevate are the external execution for an organization of what they are. So they all work it again. The fluidity, the alignment, um, so that you can uh accelerate when you need to, so you can decelerate when you need to, uh, brings up awareness. And that this is where my Baldridge and the Six Sigma, my training, and this this is all where it's come in.
JD:Well, that's a good segue too. So I I said it in the uh introduction, I've heard of pretty much everything that you have in your certifications, except I don't know the Baldridge framework of excellence. Tell me about that.
Hanna:Yeah, so the Baldridge Excellence is basically having the systematic view to things, right? So where Six Sigma allows you to go into more than minute the details that the like okay, this is how we're gonna fix this. What the Baldrich does is it gives you that overall system. You think of it like just like an organism, like a heart, right? So you have your circulatory system, you have your nervous system, you have your skeletal system. Well, same way, every business is made up of seven systems. So Baldrich is a checkup of those seven systems as a business, which has 28 subsystems in them, so that you can check them and start realizing where it I made the problems be coming in. Once I'm able to look at the problems, and that's why I'm able to utilize Six Sigma and to be able to get to the root, the problem root. But um, Baldrich is think of it, it just helps me. Do I have an overall running system? It's used for organizations, it's used for communities now. So I've actually um been able to help entire communities, so it's a series of organizations. I mean, think about it, you have your your faith groups, you have your nonprofits groups, your government groups, all of those are part of this bigger system that in order for a community, we talk about healthy communities, excellent communities, they have to be flowing together. So that's that's uh Baldrich.
JD:That is super fascinating for me. And I'm gonna be cynical here uh and say I've worked for a lot of organizations and with a lot of organizations, and from a systems perspective, I don't think I've seen a single organization that has an Uber map of their systems with the dependencies and independencies, et cetera. So just uh, you know, even in organizations that have enterprise architects and so forth, I rarely see a comprehensive mapping of the systems. Um, so that is that is really interesting. I'm gonna have to go some do some reading on that.
Hanna:Oh, yeah, no, it is fascinating because um, I mean, as it's as it's evolved, the different businesses, I mean, technology, you see, it used to be just one of the parts, but now technology touches everything. Knowledge management has to touch every single part. So if you think about it, it's kind of like the arteries of a uh of a whole body, because there's not one part um that it doesn't touch. I mean, your human human relations part, your leadership system, your customer service system. So you're able to look at it again holistically of what is going on. And that's what helps you once you see the system there, then when you're talking about adaptability, when you're talking about resilience, when you're talking about being able to be agile, you have to know where you're at. So you know what kind of effort, energy, uh performance you need to do to be able to um get to where you want to go. So it's key. It's key to understand your systems.
JD:Well, and and again, I'm I'm I know nothing about this. I'm I'm learning, this is fantastic. But I also imagine, you know, again, having worked in large organizations uh quite a lot of my life, often what I have discovered the hard way is that there are assets and there are resources and there is knowledge that exists in one part of the organization, which is a value to the rest of the organization, but it's never discovered, um, or it or it's a victim of the not here syndrome. And I'm curious, does the Baldwin framework help you uncover those assets and help you think about the utilization of those?
Hanna:Yeah. Well, actually, as an examiner, the thing is it's not that do some people know this, is everybody needs to know this. So when you're going into an organization, you do random questioning of things, and everybody has to basically answer the same way. Uh so the key question, even when you're when you're talking about this, well, how do you know that they know? Um, the excellent question, you know, how do you know that they know? You know, it's okay, well, they know this. Well, how do you know? What what are the what is the feedback that you're getting? What is the what is the tracking system that you're receiving this? And if their tracking system does not match the other department's tracking system, then that's where the breakdown is. Because you have to see what is the what is the gap. So you start avoiding the silos because we we start have we have a lot of silos, right? And that's what I see. I mean, I see even just from retail stores, one department does not know what the other floor sells or who doesn't, but is they have to match. Okay, so how do you know that they know? And in that answer, is is their measurement system or is a way that provide this the same way? Okay, so that's because we have internal customers. If they don't answer the same, then you see, like, okay, that's that's the disconnect, that's what's going on. So you can't say that. So that's where we start operating on that.
JD:You would have to be a master diplomat and negotiator to go have those conversations. I think that there, in my experience, there would be parts of any organization that frankly wouldn't want to answer those questions, but um, that's gotta be interesting.
Hanna:Well, that's the thing, right? Because that's where leadership comes in, and you're absolutely right. You will not be able to get a honest answer or a not fearful answer because immediately people think that it's gonna look for the blame. I don't want to be the last one, the one who's gonna get so yes, 100%. In uh an organization isn't just ready to do this, you have to get ready to be able to even be willing to be asked that question. Isn't that like we do, right? I mean, sometimes it's not like you have to work up yourself, sometimes courage to ask yourself that question and you realize I've seen growth in myself. The fact that I can even ask myself that, and the same way goes with organizations that you know you have to build that report as a leader. Um, build an environment where those questions can be answered, and it does take intentionality. It that's where the culture aspect comes in. Because if we're gonna want to, which is the the excellence, but be excellent, we have to build an environment for excellence. Excellence doesn't just happen. You have to build this the part so that we can be excellent because there's a lot of fear. Who wants to fail? Who wants to not have the right answer or uh start playing the blame game or our meetings to be more of like seeing what the pointing fingers was at instead of really coming up with solutions? We can say our people are greatest assets, but in reality, I'm looking to see who's gonna be fired or who's gonna take the ball for this. So, no, um, it it takes work to be able to have the courage to ask these questions and be um I'm the greatest, one of the greatest compliments you can have as a leader is like, hey, you you know you have confidence in the training you've given your people that you're okay with somebody from the outside asking because you know what you've done for them, you know the investments are kind of like what we want with our kids, right? You want like a you you invest in them, you you grow them because you know, like, hey, I have confidence that when they go out in the world, this is how they're gonna respond. You start knowing people's characters. I know they would never do that. Well, I know they would totally do that. They don't have to even be in the room, you know what way they're gonna respond. And the same way as in leadership and in organizations, how does the organization respond as a whole? We should be able to know that. How will we respond? Okay, we we got income is low. How are we gonna respond? Knowing the culture as a leader, we already know that we don't have to be guessing, we we know, and that also tells us this is where we need to help our people grow. Um, and that's what intentionality comes in, right? That's why I do talk about building trust. It's not just just trust me. Uh that's lovely, it doesn't just happen. We build trust. Um, even in like uh optimizing, well, let's just make it better. What does that look like? What does better look like? You know, what what is that? Um, and then if we do make it better, what's that gonna let us do? You why do we even need to make this better? So, again, leadership is going to help answer those questions, it's gonna help uh neutralize the room because you're right, it could end up being like a cat fight before asking those questions.
JD:And I love Hannah that you talked about culture and I love that you talked about parenting because I always bring leadership back to parenting. I think there's so many parallels uh to parenting. Um, so on that, you know, when it when it comes to parenting uh and how that relates to this environment, you know, you want your kids to feel like they can come to you as a parent and tell you the bad stuff. You want to know that you that they have the confidence in you as a parent to be able to tell them that they did something stupid or they're in a situation and that you've got their backs and you'll protect them. And I think that's so true in leadership as well. And equally, I think organizations that embrace failure uh and risk as assets as opposed to impediments, um, that's the environment where people will open up and say, no, our system is substandard or it has gaps or it's not consistent or whatever, but I'm enthusiastic to fix it, as opposed to no, you know, our shit doesn't stink, our system's perfect, there's nothing to talk about here, nothing to see here. So I I think that makes good sense, and it also is why I assume top-down sponsorship of what you do must be so incredibly paramount.
Hanna:Oh yeah. Oh, you touched it right there. 100%. If you don't have the um actually the support at every level, if you talk about again in psychological safety, even we've we've shown that top performing teams have a high psychological safety, meaning that they have support at every level of leadership. And it has to start, it really has to start at the top. Um, there's no way that you can uh even if you identify areas of improvement, that they will indeed be improved without that whole support. Um and on parenting, I got five kids. Uh let me tell you, I've taken more than one parenting class. Like, oh my gosh, I have four teenagers at the same time. Um, but you know what? I I will say that probably the the hardest transitions in parenting was um when they were legally adults, but not quite depend financially. Yep. And it's like I wasn't ready for that. And one of the things I realized what really clicked for me is what I do. It's like, well, I don't need to be, I mean, where I was maybe like, okay, this was my role as a parent, as a provider, going from that role and really thinking, well, what do I do for my clients? What do I do for my organizations? Well, I always talk about being uh a coaching leader. It's like that's why I need to become that coaching parent. And it was the greatest thing because exactly what you said. It's like I want them to come to me for questions. Yeah, I want them to be able to tell me those things because I'm gonna coach them through a nap. They're like all this stuff. You know, it's like, how do I, okay, what what is the thing? You know, what do we need to look at in here? And honestly, that's really what one of the leadership parts that we we do need to grow in. Um, and when looking at system breaks, uh even in moving forward is becoming that coaching leader, knowing not all the time, right? I mean, like you in transitions, you do need to very much be um not only coaching but giving direction. Um, but it's just like in parenting, I have to transition, and it is a mind shift, especially when you have different age kids. I mean, like you know, with one, you have to be like this, and I'm still being myself because I know that for my five-year-old, I still have to be like, hey, don't put your hand in the fire, you're gonna get burned. I don't need to tell that to my 18-year-old, you know. Um, so I still I'm me, and people think like, well, if I'm like that, I'm not like that. No, well, you I you have to know who you're talking to. Um I'm have to be that parent that's gonna protect the five-year-old, but also that parent that's gonna be able to coach my older kid when they're trying to make decisions, college decisions, car insurance decisions, those parts. And I'm still me. And I think sometimes people think like, um, no, if I do that, I'm not me. No, well, that's the spin parenting, so it's what you do. So the better I can become at being able to shift and provide my teammates, um, my upper line, my direct line, my sideline, whoever all those, being able to be there for them where they're at, the more agile, the better uh able I am to be able to have these conversations.
JD:I uh again, I'm you and I are 100% aligned. I I see this as that I we used to have the S-curve of leadership. I think we still it's still out there, that that notion of situational leadership, and I think situational pairing, the parallels well. You know, there are times then that I will talk to my kids like they're peers because they're or even as mentors, frankly, my kids are out there in the world and they've got knowledge that I don't have. And there are times that I talk to them like like like they're nibs, you know, the first time they become a parent or the first time they do their taxes or whatever. Maybe they need me to guide them in a more uh detailed way. And I I I think that's very true. Can we um can we transition? You know, in terms of hartonomics, like what is it what is a typical customer for hartonomics? I'm sure there's lots of of spectrum in that, lots of uh space in that. But what you know, what is a customer, what am I going to experience if I'm engaging your organization?
Hanna:Well, sure. The well, most of my customers have been in the C-suite, they're founders, their board of directors, um, because they're the ones that are uh feeling the pain of losing uh income. So those will be the one customers that come to me, either they have high turnover, uh, they're experiencing high turnover, they know that they're about to have to um perhaps even do a massive cut because of the changing in environment. So we're talking about there, they're the ones asking the sustainability question. So a lot of my customers are in the midst of asking that. They want results, but they don't want to sacrifice their people either because they love their people, love their teams. So that's a great customer for me. It's like, hey, we need to be innovative. How do we keep our team in this changing environment? You know, how do we um if in the case of cutting, that also comes in the case of scaling because you have to match the scaling to the skills, the skills needed to the future. So those are also people that come to me. It's like, hey, we're getting ready. It's it's I mean, people think like it's great when you make a lot of money. Well, it takes money to take money, it takes strategy to keep the money and to continue to do that. So it's not like, hey, I get a million-dollar contract right now. Well, this systems and processes, people that have to be in there. Um, so people that are looking into culture so that you can seize into unexpected, that you're looking at unexpected opportunities because you want to grow. So those are also my clients because they're they have experienced the pains, they know they're missing something, and they don't quite know what it is, and also in a and they have an opportunity that know it will be coming up. So I help them get their teams ready, I help them identify uh who will be the right people in the team, uh, be able to perhaps uh not only get the next line of leaders up, because a lot of times that's where the missing link is, is that there may not be the next generation of leaders coming up. Um, so I help them with that. That's a great customer for me. Those that are looking at either the founder that is looking at an other markets that is looking to racing up the next line of leadership, those that are looking at scaling, or those are the ones that are gonna have to turn down. They have to know what is the leader I need even in downturn time. So uh with the framework uh assessments, and I use quite a bit of assessments to be able to help them with that part and then strategize, make sure that the uh daily activities, the operational activities are matching their strategic plans.
JD:And and what's the typical duration, or maybe there's no typical, but what's a common duration for uh an engagement with artnomics?
Hanna:Well, everybody wants to have things that like a drive-thru, right? Like, oh yeah, I want to change this. So, yeah, so some people might just want a workshop, which I can do. Some people might just like just want my core team, um, which I can do, coaching. But if we're really talking about transformation, what I've come to learn after working with many organizations, the transformation really to set up the culture and that is about a two to three years journey, which most people don't want to say that, so we can definitely do six months or two or um by projects, right? Because you gotta see is by projects, but I would say um, as far as it really not only identifying the skills needed, but making sure that you integrate because one thing is identifying, then the other thing is training, but then we're talking about also integrating into what they're at. We're probably looking at about three to six months at least when we're looking into um really integrating and sustaining, then is the other part, right? Anytime that you introduce e-solution, a lot of times that will show the other parts as other problems because you also have to get the other people ready um too. So it all depends on the culture, it depends on the team. Um, it's really not a time thing, time is gonna happen anyways. It's like what do you want to happen and during that time? And um, it's a it's an evolving thing. Um a lot of times an assessment is good just to give the leader some clarity, so that's something that can be done immediately over a weekend. Um, and a lot of times what I find my my leaders they just need encouragement. They they honestly they do have a lot of the answers themselves, um, but they do need a thinking partner, um, an open space, an open arena where they can discuss some more sensitive things that are happening with them. And the engagement with that usually is about six months to 12 months.
JD:Well, and you've got you've come right back to the core philosophy behind coaching, which is the client actually has the knowledge they need. They just need to find it and and leverage it. Uh, so I I like that a lot. It certainly fits with my philosophy around coaching. Um, I've got to ask, you know, again, given your focus around systems, uh I've got to think AI is a big topic for you now. So how are you thinking about AI? How's it playing out in terms of how you run your business? But how's it how's it looking for your customers?
Hanna:Okay, so there's a couple of customers, right? There's the ones that like um have tried to keep it away as much as possible, you know, they're kind of like we're gonna set up this invisible force, we're not gonna succumb. And then the other one is like, quick, let's embrace this because we're about to turn this whole thing around. So it's like you have the two opposites. I think there's uh um definitely an adoption. You have your early adopters of the technology, um, and you have the ones that are not necessarily resistant because just technology, but they're afraid of it. I mean, the same thing happened with the internet, right? I mean, even the internet can we use that at the beginning. So it's like what we're seeing with AI is no different than what we started seeing, even with the whole even concept of having companies that don't have brick and mortar. Like the people like, well, I don't know if I trust them, you know, like they didn't gotta have a brick and mortar, and then you realize it started taking all over the place. So the conversation is definitely there. Um, it's uh really asking people, people uh what I see a lot is asking the same questions I was asking. Who are we? What is what is our real purpose? What is our real value add in this changing part? Is there a space for us in the future because of the things that are coming down? Uh the so there's a lot of questions dealing with talent, the the workforce necessary for that, um, what to adopt when, and the sustainability also, because it's not just about adopting the technology, is how do you gonna maintain the technology? Uh, and we saw that even when adopting computers and new systems, uh, there were all kinds of software companies, but were they gonna be there two years from now, three years from now? Um, so those are unanswered questions for me in how I use the business. Well, it's helped me uh be able to some of the more tedious things I didn't like. I'm looking, I'm very intentionally looking for programs that help me with that, right? Like when it comes to spreadsheets, when it comes to even looking at um potential customers, even potential opportunities, AI has definitely helped me identify those quicker. What used to take me months, or only being in the room would I find out things, I'm able to get more access to information. Um, for me, it's also helped me digest information, like process. Okay, what does this really mean? In a world of so much information, you know, how can this apply to me? So, in a sense, um, be able to discern some of the information that I need for right now is helped me with the way I'm also seeing with other companies. Well, um, we have all of this, we have all this knowledge that we have gotten. What knowledge is pertinent to us now? So, synthesizing is where I'm seeing a lot of the the evolution of that, but yet uh, and I think this is something where a lot of people cut themselves short, you still have to realize that you know your business more than anybody else. You still have to know that you are the subject matter expert, and you're not wrong. Uh, like this, you're not wrong in the sense that you you have to, there's there's experience and nothing really still, even with AI and all these things, experience is really gonna be a lot of your North Star going there when you're looking and validating and seeing what the next step is. So um I'm I'm seeing that uh I think with with with the leaders is hey, how can we still accept, you know, uh acknowledge what is the information we're getting, um, but also uh check it with the experience with who we know that we are, to be able to see what what parts can we use to be more efficient, um, to be able to evolve as we need to, because we do need to evolve. A lot of organizations are having to be involved. I mean, like look at the finance sector, uh, that one's being hugely disrupted. Um, look at the not only the financial sector, even technology, the very ones that have brought technology, so many um of the developers and software, I mean, like that all is looking very different. Um, so those are real raw questions we have to ask, and we have to ask them with our team. Where where do we go from here?
JD:Yeah, I think that all makes sense. I I'm I would say I ask this question of every guest I have now. I think AI is is influencing all of us, and frankly, this podcast wouldn't work without without AI. It takes care of a lot of the stuff that I don't want to do, like you just talked about. But I I I think the common theme I'm starting to hear, and I'm paraphrasing you, extremely paraphrasing you, but is that you know the AI gives you both the time by relieving you of the tedious, you know, uh wasteful stuff that you do today, um, and the knowledge to be able to make human decisions. So I think that's maybe the the simplification of what you've just said is that it's uh use right, it's an empowerment uh technology because it gives you time and knowledge at your fingertips. I've got to think, you know, you must gather a lot of information across all your customers. Um, you know, you're get gathering a lot of information about what the common systems issues are, process issues are, and so forth. I've got to think there's an opportunity there with AI to start to correlate um that information into intelligence that you can use for future customers. You are you thinking that way? Oh yeah.
Hanna:Oh, absolutely. I'm thinking that. I mean, uh, I think about the data, right? I mean, uh I've had to I come from a world where we had to collect a lot of data but manually and synthesize it and all that. And AI definitely promises a lot. I mean, I've been able to see it's like, oh my, oh my goodness, what? Um, so I think definitely with AI, there is such a potential with not only the um the gathering of data, being able to utilize that data, actually do something because that's been the other thing, right? We've we have a lot of data and knowledge which is not being applied. So I think that's the the part where AI can really help is the application of that data. It's still gonna take humans to apply it, which is like the people like, hey, this is what's gonna happen, like, because we still need to carry it out, so we need to still give meaning to the process. Uh, so I believe that's where the we can still collaborate and there is opportunity to collaborate with AI because it will give us information, it'll give us you know how to integrate it, but we are the integrators, we are the connectors, we are the ones to give meaning to that.
JD:Well, and uh again, going back to my corporate experience, most of the organizations I've worked with, frankly, had you know documentation, so uh standard operating procedures, standards and so forth spread across a plethora of storage locations, SharePoint sites and and notes and whatever else. Uh, frankly, the leadership didn't even know where the documentation was stored in many cases. I've got to think part of your challenge, in fact, is is discovery in terms of working out where those documents exist and where the data is. Um, maybe that's the opportunity that really you know comes to bear is that you can you can mine the corporate network and discover where all these documents live and then hopefully correlate that information into something intelligent. Yeah.
Hanna:Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think that is a huge opportunity because we do have, I don't think there's many places where you go where there's not a survey being taken, but what do we do with that information? Right. You know, like survey for all that, right? I mean, consistently um ratings and and uh at the end of the year, the even the progress reports, things like that. Uh we collect it, we'll see it for like a minute, but are we integrating it? Yeah, so I think that's the opportunity. Something again, like when we this massive amount of knowledge, can you give my help me strategize with that? But again, you're the strategist, you're the integrator, you're the connector, because that is the humanity uh aspect of it, yeah, um, where we really get to do it. So um, and it's great potential. I mean, oh my goodness. I mean, you imagine actually being able to see the the progress of different surveys, different data, different um the actual growth of uh employees, of the workforce. Um, we have that information, it just hasn't been put together in a lot of places. I mean, at least it's been my experience that, like you said, they don't know, oh yeah, we did a survey back then and all this stuff, and that was it. It's somewhere, some closet. If if it hasn't been destroyed already, or at least it's been scanned, we scan everything. Uh, we went through that whole thing, right? Digitizing meant scanning. Well, what do we do with the scans? Who goes into the scans? Does anybody know what the scan is?
JD:Yeah, no, I I again I I I can see that very much. Look, I want to um I want to swing to back to you. Um, this is a bit fascinating, and and I'll include links to HeartNomics. I know you've got a YouTube channel and you've got a lot of content that's up there, so I'll share all of that with the listeners, but I want to focus on you for a while. We've talked about uh the horrendous challenges that you had from four to fourteen uh with with your heart condition, but uh I want to really focus on your experience now as an entrepreneur uh and as a business owner. Um, what's what's been the biggest hurdle for you? What's the biggest thing you've had to overcome and how did you overcome it?
Hanna:Well, I think the same thing, like everybody else. It's like, hey, yeah, continuing to make my value add prop. What's my value add proposition? And as well, keeping in touch with the clients, making sure that I'm there for those that need me. And it looks different now, right? Because there's all kinds of voices out there. So I think that that has definitely been a challenge for me. Um, how do I differentiate my voice in a world where everybody, which is great, everybody has always had a voice, but the voices are amplified because of all these technology things. Um, and really being able to find the that the people that need me find me. That's honestly been the biggest, um, well, the the biggest things that we I'm always having to look, how do I best do that? Um, so navigating that has been a big deal. As an entrepreneur, well, I mean, you know how it is. So I think you know, like that every day you wake up unemployed, you gotta make your you know your value, right? I mean, it's like, hey, how am I giving results? Uh, and I think that's the difference where I mean I've been live, I've been an entrepreneur for well over two decades, three decades. So um, this is not my my first time. I'm not being anymore like freaking out or anything. Like, no, this is what you do. We have to show results, you have to show what is it that you do, and I think that's the part where people are having trouble. You know, you want to be paid or be valued for being there, or presence, which is a lot of times where the nine to five, uh, you know, it's like, hey, I'm not even I'm not able to reward you for the great things that you're doing. Um, and I think with an entrepreneur, it's just been the life of that is I'm always consistently my entire being is getting results for my clients. So I have to continue to get to results. And what are the results that they're needing? What are the results that they need today? Um, so that has been the the consistent, which I um it's been interesting now. So many more people moving into the not necessarily entrepreneur, uh, because entrepreneur creates jobs. Uh self employed, you create a job for yourself, but still as a self, even as a self employed, you're still having to think of like how you it's not just getting this done. It's like it's what you got done, does it work? And that's the next part of the question, not just like here. Hey, I built this for you. Okay, great. But did it have the this the thinking behind it to make sure that I can use it? It's not an asset for me unless it actually works. So I think in that mindset, it's been very interesting, even helping other solopreneurs for me and other self-employed because, like, hey, it has to work. It has to work for your client, it has to be results-oriented. So that's been uh also, in a sense, fun for me because uh it's fun to help people see how their projects and their service can really lead to results for others.
JD:But I'm hearing you very much taking your own experience as an entrepreneur and applying those, particularly again for the solo entrepreneurs that you're working with. Yeah. Yeah.
Hanna:100%. Yeah. Because I mean again, you're making a case every day. It's like, hey, this is how I can help you. I get results. You need to have ROI. Um, and people that are making the transition into entrepreneurship or even the solopreneur, that's not something that uh has been part of their language, just thinking ROI. You know, what's their return on investment? What is, you know, what is my work gonna, what does it mean to the customer and sense of value? So, and it does take development, it does take thinking into like, okay, yeah, what is this gonna yield to the person? You know, I do this, it's gonna cost them this much, this is this is the price. But in essence, this is the also the value, this is how it's gonna help you in times, this is when it's gonna help you in savings, it's when it's gonna help you as far as you know, um, return on them in the investment because this is when it's gonna yield. So um those conversations have been quite interesting.
JD:So, with with all the knowledge and the scars and the the the experiences you've had kind of going back to 2017 until today, what's the one thing that you'd want to tell yourself back in 2017? What's the what's the one most impactful bit of feedback that you'd be giving yourself or guidance?
Hanna:Well, trust the process. Trust the process. Um, it takes faith. Uh, I think uh it takes a lot of faith to do something and do something again and not yield, uh, not get what you think, or it doesn't look the way that you thought. Um, and immediately it's the shiny object syndrome. Oh, but if I do this or the squirrel, if I do that. Uh, so I catch my I caught myself a lot with doing that. Well, this is the the fear, right? That wants to creep in, like, oh my goodness, this is not going the way I thought it would, it's not looking the way. Uh, what can I do now? You know, this whole idea of constantly chasing after something or you know, trying to solve it myself, where if I had to stay consistent and trusted the process, it will work, you know, that every detour is still part of destination, every failure is not, hey, change plan, because that that was a lesson. Although I went through it in my life, I didn't learn, I didn't operate like that all the time at all. Um, not every failure meant I had to take a detour, it was just part of the process.
JD:Okay, so I'm hearing define a plan and execute the plan, avoid distraction, stay on the plan.
Hanna:Well, distractions are gonna come, just don't let them derail you. It's hard. Trust the process, if anything, just trust the process sooner, be consistent.
JD:Right, got it. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Um, who's had the most significant influence on you? Like who who inspires you or who do you model?
Hanna:Okay, well, of course, well, my faith comes in a big deal here. So Jesus won, and after him, uh, I will say John Maxwell has been somebody that not only in the leadership aspect, as far as like the theory, um, but having been able to be around him in proximity, seeing what he's done, seeing how he treats people, seeing like, oh my goodness, he can outwork anybody at his 70 plus years is incredible the stamina um that he's had. So uh seeing him doing country transformation trips, uh and really the legacy, uh, I think so much of it with him is just he is just as concerned for the legacy afterwards as this is just the person right in front of him. Yeah, so that for me has been a huge influence in how I want to show up, in how I want to serve and my legacy, how I want to be uh remembered, but also the the um what is the development, what I want to impact and invest in this current generation.
JD:Yeah, that makes sense. And if and listeners, if you're not following John Maxwell, uh I recommend it. He's uh he's incredibly inspiring uh as a leader and as a humanitarian, I think. You know, he is he's very human in his approach to things. Um, I stumbled across John Maxwell some years ago, and I th I find him quite inspiring. So that makes a lot of sense.
Hanna:Yeah, it's a real deal.
JD:No, again, again, I think it's important to have those those role models. Uh maybe a tough question if you could only read or listen to one more book or one book for the rest of your life, what would it be?
Hanna:Yeah, the Bible.
JD:Right.
Hanna:100%. Well, there's many books, right? 66 of them. So if I would say one of those Proverbs, um, I like Proverbs um because it's real, um I I like it, uh real life uh practical things. So I think uh in that sense, any book that would give me practical, real life self-development. Um, so that would be one of my favorite books would be Proverbs.
JD:Yep, okay. Uh is there a ritual or a hack or a habit that you've adopted that has uh a positive impact on your effectiveness or your efficiency?
Hanna:Oh, yeah, breathing. Um, I now I had breathing, you know, yeah, I know it sounds very simple, but uh breathing for and I didn't realize it again. These are things that I know I did as a kid, and I know I did to be able to get through um the illness and and the moments. Is that what my grandmother would say? Just breathe, breathe, breathe. Everybody would just breathe. Um, but I didn't um realize really all the science and the different types of breaths that you can do for different things to um engage different parts of your brain, to engage different parts of your body. So um for me, uh the practice of breathing, especially like the box breathing, the to really calm and get my safe and my my place in a safe zone so I can hear my thoughts, that has been quite incredible. And I didn't, like I said, I didn't realize there was so much science behind it. I didn't realize there were even courses in breathing, which I started taking is a lot, and it's a real deal. I mean, you can change the entire chemistry of your body, you can change the entire feel of your day just with different types of breaths, even have a better night's sleep. So those have been some of the rituals I have been doing.
JD:Hannah, it doesn't surprise me at all. I you you may be surprised that breathing comes up so often when I ask this question. So often the answer I get is that is breathing. Really? Uh yeah, and and and I'm I'm aligned as well, you know, as I did my studies around mindfulness and and coaching and and support. Again, so much of it came down to breathing and the and the effects that breathing has on heart rate, on on hormone distribution, on mental clarity and so forth. It it is quite remarkable. I think I'm just writing myself a note. I think I'm going to dedicate uh uh a future episode of the podcast to just talking about breathing and the different types and techniques of breathing and the impacts of that because I do think it is incredibly powerful and and comments like yours reinforce that. So yeah, I think it's a gift.
Hanna:It is, it's crazy, right? It's it's simple. We take it for granted. And it's like, wow, it's it's a real thing, it's a thing.
JD:Oxygen's life, right? I mean, it's it can only be as fundamental as that, you know. Without without oxygen, there is no life. So, or for us at least. So uh, you know, I it it it's not surprising it's so important, but I think that makes perfect sense. I want to ask you a two-part question, Hannah. And and uh the first question is um, where do you get your superpower? So you're about to go into that tough meeting, or you're gonna have to do the negotiation, or you've got a business challenge you've got to overcome, and you need to find uh that extra room for power to get through that. What's your source?
Hanna:Hope I have got to get in touch with hope. My my superpower is I have to is like basically a checkup from the neck up, like how am I dealing with hope? Um, because hope is the catalyst for action. So if I'm gonna go for something, if I didn't have hope in it, I probably wouldn't. And I had I started learning that that a lot of times what I thought was a time management problem was really a hope problem. Um, I thought it was an avoidance problem, it wasn't an avoidance thing, it was a hope. And because I didn't have hope, if I if I was able to feel my hope, it would give me courage to look at that situation. Um, I realized if I didn't know the answers to that and I didn't want to deal with that, but if I could raise up where my hopefulness in that part, then I could do things I wasn't able to do before. Um, so that to me has been when I don't know what to do, I check my hope. Well, how is my hope in this? And what does hope look like for this? Um, hope is uh not passive, it's not just positive thinking. People think it's positive thinking, not at all. It's uh really a muscle. Hope finds a way. People with high hope look at ways, they look for solutions. They're kind of like water, right? Water initially finds a way, but then water makes a way eventually is what happens. So, same thing with hope. Hope is, you know, it helps you. It's what starts, it gets your brain going, it gets everything a lot, you know, aligned. And um, it really I've noticed it especially in times of chaos and uncertainty. I I keep I don't know. I I don't know. I I just don't. But if I can be hopeful, what is the hope I can find in a situation? I'll start knowing, I'll start, okay, what's the next best step? What's that little mini shift or what's that little mini step I can take? And it starts with hope.
JD:So, you know, for the purposes of of making it practical, is that about sitting down and visualizing success? Is that about you know kind of forecasting what the out the positive outcome will be, or what does it look like?
Hanna:Again, is that for me I could call it a checkout from the neck up. I check, I I check myself, you know, okay, what is it that I'm either avoiding the situation or how am I how is my mind going into this meeting? You know, I take a check um right here, and when I realize that I'm not feeling it, or I'm like, it's isn't what I even what I call it, um, it's it almost takes your energy away. You realize when you don't have hope, you don't have the energy for that. Right. So I realize um it is what I call even what is called well, how does it feel like you feel like you don't have it? It feels heavy. When I do the checkup on a neck up, it feels heavy. And I don't immediately go like, oh, just shake it off, don't think about it. Well, that's not that's that's not sustainable. It's not that. If I really want to make a change into that and empower myself with it, then I look no, what is my hopeful, what my what is my hope factor here in this situation? And I start looking at it. Well, what what would make better? What would make this meeting powerful? You know, what would make what would be the good outcome? What would be what in this situation is what is the hope in this? What is the final outcome? I may not necessarily know how, but what does it look like? And I start realizing that if I don't have hope in that, I won't ask myself those questions. So that's why I have to check my hope first.
JD:So I this may be not what's going through your mind, but but um what it's making me think of a model that I learned in my early coaching days, which is what do I want? What do I have to do to get what I want? And who do I have to be to get to do what I want I need to do to get what I want? Is that an element of what's going on here?
Hanna:Oh yeah, no, that's a really good one. I mean, I had not heard of it. It's a very good three-piece part. That makes sense. Yeah, definitely. What what do I want? Um, I realized a lot of times I didn't know. Like I just it was just an over blah feeling. Like I just like that. Um, but if I can connect with that, and it I realized it's just I had to start somewhere. Like in that checkup, what you're saying, asking that question 100%, it starts getting me somewhere. And um just overall raising the like I said for me, or just overall raising my hope factor helps me ask those questions. Then I get creative. Then I'm like, yeah, what what what do I want here? You know, how how do I want that? What is a good outcome? Um, but I was even many times I've been too afraid to even ask that because it does take courage to ask that. Yeah, it takes courage to ask yourself, what do you want?
JD:Particularly if you're not sure that you know what you want. And I think that's very true of a lot of us, by the way. I think a lot of us go into discussions, actually not sure of what we want, but we just know we want to have the conversation. I I I love the model, I think it's really powerful. Um let me flip that on its head. So, you know, what's your kryptonite? What takes the energy away from you and how do you overcome it?
Hanna:My goodness, with disconnection. Um I just disconnected from uh I think purpose, disconnected from meaning. I don't even like know why we're doing this, a disconnection that also goes like, oh, you know, what's going on? Disconnection many times when um I like uh and I've caught myself when I'm like too busy, and yet I don't see, well, how does this overall together come? You know, how is this uh really leading to that fulfilling life? Because there's a disconnect even in my activity, in my overall purpose. So whenever I start feeling that again, that that drain, I realize is that I need to check in the connection. Well, why why am I doing this? You know, what what's the meaning behind it? So uh that's that's a big, big part where my creativity suffers if I don't have a sense of of meaning, a sense of belonging. Uh this has to match in some way, shape, or form. And I would say it's not something I've I even realized at the beginning because I was just like, hey, I get to do it. Let me let's do it. Let's do it. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then I was completely drained um from the this that really the disconnected overall. Like, how did this mission even go? How was the purpose in this? And then just completely burned out, flat, flat line, completely flatline in my action. I went from doing a ton of stuff to like doing nothing.
JD:Yeah, and I and I could see I could see how both interrelate as well. And I'm looking over your shoulder right now at a little sign that you've got that says you'll always have hope. I think that fits it fits it perfectly. All right, my last question for you, Hannah. Um, yeah, uh, do you is there a quote that that you gravitate to that that builds you know energy in you or empowers you that that's you want to share with the listeners?
Hanna:Oh my goodness, I got a few. Um, but I do love this one where um achieving a goal is not nearly as important as what you become in achieving that goal. Um, and that really came in the the becoming, because I I think a lot of times we do put so much weight into that goal, and that goal may or may not come. And honestly, the goal is really not even up to us, it's it's is the activity towards that goal that is up to us. And and I is really that the becoming um really spoke a lot to me because it's like you know, it's all our journey. Uh, you know, goals are we can be milestones, but really it's the fulfillment that comes as you go, um, as is everything that we do. So that that's why I love that quote.
JD:No, I love it too. That that's the that kind of parallels the older, it's not about the destination, it's the journey um and the experience, you know. And I I think that's I love it. That's very good. Do you know where the quote came from?
Hanna:No, I've heard it applied to different people, so um, no, I don't know the original urgence. I've heard it's been for six zigglers, I've heard it's John Maxwell, I've heard it's different people, so I don't know who uh quite came up with that one. Do you no?
JD:I don't, but I'm gonna look it up because I can't help myself. I'm I'm always inquisitive about where these things come from.
Hanna:Um I do too, but you know what? I I heard John said it one time. The first time it's like, you know, the person gets quoted. The second time he said uh he says that you know, people um like, well, I heard so and so say it, but next time it's um, you know, I I heard somewhere, and then like, oh, I one time I said so. He says like a lot of times the quotes, we really don't know where they come from. So I'm like, you know, I misquoted quotes. I'm like, I I don't know, I just know that one really speaks to me.
JD:I I love the quote. No, I think it's a it's a great quote, and and again, it's just my curiosity. It probably doesn't change anything. Look, this has been awesome, and I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience. Um, I'm thrilled that you're here and healthy and successful given the experience you had as a child. I think that's fantastic. I think there's a lot of lessons here uh for our listeners. So again, thank you for that. I will include uh a link to your organization and your YouTube channel. I'll also include include your LinkedIn link in case anybody wants to reach out to you directly and ask you questions and so forth. I'm sure you'd you'd be happy to have a conversation with anybody about the work that you've done. Yeah, that's what I thought. Um but uh but again, I I really thank you for that. Um listeners, um, I hope you've got as much value out of this conversation as I did. I'm sure you did. Um, as always, I do appreciate you you uh joining us for the session. Uh also, as always, if you've got any feedback or any questions that you want to ask me, by all means I'd love to hear from you or any suggestions for future episodes as well. And uh wherever you are, whatever you're doing, I hope you're living your best life. And most of all, most important, please be good to each other. Thanks, everybody.
Hanna:Thank you.
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