JD's Journal
Everyone we know has experienced their unique journey of life, and along the way they have had their share of success and failure. Each of us have learned important lessons and gathered valuable resources that have allowed us to survive and thrive. This podcast is a place for sharing our stories and our resources for the benefit of others. It's a celebration of the resilience and tenacity of people in all walks of life, our local heroes.
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JD's Journal
Ryion Pun: Leadership Resilience Through Great Change
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Can CFOs shift from mere financial gatekeepers to catalysts for sustainable growth? Join us as we chat with Ryion Pun, a visionary strategist and mind shifter, who shares his journey from managing budgets at Amazon Web Services to founding Guishi, a company inspired by ancient wisdom. Ryion brings a fresh perspective on leadership resilience as he coaches new and upcoming CFOs passionate about driving social impact. Learn how he empowers these financial leaders to influence CEOs and investors towards lasting, sustainable growth.
Ever wondered about the coexistence of meditation and AI? Inspired by Yuval Noah Harari, Ryion takes us on his personal quest for spiritual and energetic understanding. We discuss how self-learning and embracing our existence as energetic beings can dissolve limiting beliefs and unlock new potentials. Dive into the profound insights on AI's current limitations and its transformative potential, as well as the role of human resilience in navigating the technological landscape.
Leadership is not just about titles; it's about vulnerability, self-empowerment, and embracing paradoxes. Ryion's coaching methods focus on addressing internal barriers and leveraging personal strengths, making vulnerability a cornerstone of professional growth. He shares valuable insights on the importance of embracing change, finding courage in nature, and the transformative journey of leadership coaching. Whether you’re a leader aiming to inspire your team or an individual seeking personal growth, this episode offers practical advice and compelling insights for embracing resilience in today’s ever-changing world.
Leadership Resilience in Changing Times
JDHi folks , welcome back to the JD's Journal podcast . So great to have you here Today . I'm with Ryan Punn and we're going to be talking about leadership resilience through the great change that we're seeing in the world today . And we're going to be talking about leadership resilience through the great change that we're seeing in the world today and we're going to really explore that topic . So Ryan describes himself as a mind shifter , a change agent and a strategist and through his company Guishi and I think I pronounced that right , but he'll correct me he provides coaching and transformational guidance to leaders , particularly chief financial officers , on how to shift and evolve to adapt the changing world around us .
JDNow I've known Ryan for about seven years now , almost exclusively as the man who controlled the purse strings , managing our planning and execution of our budgets and expenses required to build and operate the infrastructure supporting Amazon Web Services . Clearly , ryan has experienced one of those substantial career shifts that Andrea Goslink was talking about when we had our episode in episode nine of this podcast , and we'll definitely explore that journey with Ryan today . I think it's going to take a substantial part of this podcast . But before we get into any of that , ryan , did I introduce you appropriately ? Is there something you'd like to change or add from my description of what you do today ?
RyionFirst of all .
RyionJohn , thank you for having me . It is a privilege to have this chat on your podcast , so you know . To your question I just want to add a little note on why I targeted the CFO the chief financial officers To be precise . I actually target new and upcoming CFOs who deeply care about the social impact and wants to build their executive presence to influence their CEOs and investors to drive sustainable growth . I actually recognize that , no matter how much CEOs and founders want to implement great culture or balance the social impact with profits , they are often constrained by the shareholders and investor focus on profit maximization . Shareholders and investors focus on profit maximization , so CFOs will hold the keys to the financial numbers and the CFOs can become the enablers of a more conscious future by leveraging their expertise to design a holistic financial plan that benefits all stakeholders . That is why I love working with the CFOs .
JDAnd I love that . You know , as somebody who has worked with financial controllers and budget owners for all of my professional career , I generally see them as being the brakes right , Seeing them as being the constrainers of investment , the folks who are always kind of suspicious and conservative , and so forth . I love the notion of having a controller who is actually facilitating , who's actually enabling vision , enabling strategy . I think that and I have seen that , but I got to say it's been pretty rare . So I'm super keen to explore that further with you today , Ryan . Absolutely , Before we do that , I really want to ask you and I ask all of my guests this question . So you've given us a pretty good sense to begin with , at least in terms of what you're doing today , and I certainly know you from your past life . But if you were to describe to somebody what your purpose here is , what is your legacy that you're trying to leave behind , what is that , Ryan ? What is the fuel in your motor right now ?
RyionYeah , John , I will start with . You know why I come up with the company named Gui Shu . So Gui Shu in Chinese actually means return to teacher , the return to the teacher within us , and it's the voice of our soul . When we learn to listen to our inner teacher , we actually reclaim our power and feel centered . This is what we want my clients to remember when we start to understand our purpose and why we are here , which is what I'm doing right now that this inner guidance brings fearlessness without the need for control , and nurtures this love-based mindset instead of a fear-based decisions . That benefits all beings and the planet , and that is really the purpose of why I started this . So my co-founder and I choose this Chinese meaning as our company name so that we can remember our ancestors and the ancient wisdom that has carried us for generations and hopefully we can build on this .
JDWow . I love the blending of culture and legacy with career and strategy . I think bringing those together one of the things I've always said to my own folks that when you're doing something that is intrinsically motivating for you , it's something you care about , that's driven from the heart , you can work 25 hours a day . I mean it's amazing what you can do if you have that engine . And , to your point , when you work driven for a mission that's not within you , that's an extrinsic mission that erodes your motivation so substantially . So I love that sense of kind of marriage , of the cultural drive , the real passion with the work that you're doing . I think that's fantastic .
JDSo I've got to ask this question . As we noted in the introduction , as I talked about just now , I know you as the bean counter , the guy that's holding the books right , but I see a very different person today and as you've embarked on that substantially different career pathway , was there an event ? Was there some kind of interaction ? What was the ? What was the pivot point ? What was the catalyst to cause this shift in your focus ?
Ryionthis is a slightly longer story but john , so bear with me here but it all started from may of 2019 , when my father passed away . So it was really tough for me at that time , and I actually seek help with a therapist to manage my grief . And that's when she introduced me to meditation , which I was was quite resistant to it at first , but then , once I started it , it become a daily practice and , in a way , I felt that meditation is the last and the most important gift that my father gave me when he left . And then fast forward a little bit here .
RyionIn 2022 and 2023 , a series of events happened . I got out of amazon , joined a crypto company briefly , and then I found myself jobless . It was quite unexpected , you know , after 20 years being in corporate , you know high profile jobs and because my plan was to work for another 10 years before I retire and my goal is to start a sanctuary with my wife in some remote location where we haven't decided . Since my dad passed on , both of us have been on a spiritual awakening journey , embracing a more Zen lifestyle , and so it was our goal to create this sanctuary zen lifestyle and so it was our goal to create this sanctuary .
RyionSo when I found myself jobless , my first reaction actually wasn't to jump back into the corporate world . Instead , I looked at it as an opportunity that the universe presented me , and so then I can explore something . I don't know what that was , but that was beginning of my exploration . So what I did , I start with because at that moment it was like the mass adaption of AI . So I was keen to learn how this would impact the finance professions and how I need to upgrade myself . So that was the first thing . So I did a lot of research on that .
Exploring Meditation and AI Impact
RyionThen along the way I came across an interview with Yuval Noah Harari , who is the author of the Sabian book , and he mentioned that technology is forcing us on an inner spiritual quest because if we don't , ai will know us better than we know ourselves , and then it could be game over for us . That hit me in my head or in my body , I don't know , it hit me all over . So instead of diving deeper into AI , I pivot and focus on investigating myself and the truth of the universe . So then , the more I explore , the more fascinated I became with different concepts , and new concepts comes in , like quantum entanglements , the paradoxic nature of all things . But of all this discovery I discovered and I noticed one thing when I shift my mindset to understand what we humans experience energetically and not just physically , it starts to unlock many mysteries and limiting beliefs .
RyionSo then , when I was young actually , I'm an expert in shifting my mindset right and often like to choose the path that's less travel , like when I was five I secretly removed the training wheels from my bicycle , shifting my mindset from dependency on my parents to self-learning . But even so , with this mindset shift by embracing this new human experience as an energetic being , was challenging and took me a while to try to understand . What does it even mean ? But , like Nikola Tesla , the investor in the future said , if you want to find the secrets of the universe , think in terms of energy frequency and vibration .
RyionSo this whole journey , john , kind of led me to co-found the Kweesu with my friends and my spiritual mentor to share our discovery . We discovered a few tools that can really support people that wants to upgrade themselves and we are actually co-writing a book . We call it kind of like a human user manual to help those feeling stuck in the current development and ready to take a leap into new possibilities . So kind of kind of come a big circle with my corporate finance experience and his spiritual experience , which synergize our findings into something simple to understand , right and then back it by scientific data , ancient wisdom and personal experience , so more people can benefit from this limitless growth that we hope to achieve .
JDWow . So there's so much in there , ryan , in terms of the journey you've gone through and this is such an incredible time that we are in right now . I'm on the AI thing . I have to be honest with you , I'm kind of split brain now . I'm in love with what it's giving me in terms of tools and , frankly , I'm using it every day and more and more as I learn to make use of it .
JDThe statement you used just then , right now , that AI might know us better than we do , is so profound and interesting and , in fact , one the the arguments that I I have is a push back to anybody that says ai is getting close to human cognitive capabilities , which I do hear .
JDI do hear people on different podcasts and so forth talking about the fact we're getting close , but my view has always been you won't be close until you can have ai understand guilt and shame and fear . Right Today , I still believe AI is purely incredibly intelligent algorithms for processing information , but until it has guilt or fear or shame , that's the nervous bit for me . If you've got that sort of processing capacity without those factors , that's the . That's the nervous bit for me . If you've got that sort of processing capacity without those factors . That's quite alarming , and so I I think what you just described is really interesting in terms of how do we make sure that we we do have the the strength and resilience as humans to be , you know , beyond lockstep in terms of what's happening in these computing powers ? That's really fascinating to me .
RyionI also love the fact go ahead you sorry , yeah and I think one thing when you talk about like the emotion of AI , and that's like one thing that is very helpful to discern , I think actually , when you ask AI about you know , let's say you chat with AI , say hey , I am feeling this and this AI actually almost can tell you what your feelings are like .
RyionSo AI gets to a point to be able to understand our external expression and external emotions through algorithm . It's like , oh , if this person say X , I know that this person is angry , but this is very external and this is how we perceive and experience ourselves right now . If we don't go deep into understand where does this emotion come from ? What is the inner trigger of all that and what is the core beliefs of this , which ai cannot do , and that's what that's where they're very important that , no matter what ai does , unless they become a sentient being at some points , that they can actually create emotions most like I agree with you most of them , the the emotion that they understand now is an algorithm , right , based on very external expressions .
JDIt's synthesized , right , and I think that's the way I think about it is that I can synthesize by the way , you know , I've done a bit in the performing arts and I can synthesize all sorts of emotions as an actor as well . Right , exactly , and I think AI is similar in the way that it synthesizes fear and anger and all those sorts of things . But , to your point , those aren't coming from my core , they are not real human emotions , they are fabricated emotions , and I think that is the thing that's interesting to me . To a large extent , ai has nothing to fear . It is mechanical , it is electrical and so forth , so we're not talking about a life form in the true sense . That's really , really interesting I think you almost made another point there maybe you did is that we , as humans , often also synthesize those emotions , and I think we see it particularly in the way that social media makes us react to posts today .
JDI would say equally . I see a lot of very synthetic emotional reactions to certain posts , but the reality is in a microsecond they're gone and I'm looking at the next post , and then it's gone and I'm looking at the next post , and so it's like clicking that angry button or the sad button . It's really not an emotion in the true sense . It's a reaction .
RyionExactly , exactly . You nail it , john .
JDThat's really , really fascinating . All right , we're going to keep probing on that . I'm curious . I meditate , but I meditate really to a large extent to think about , from a kind of relaxation and a focused perspective . That's about as deep as I get and I've been transparent on the podcast before . I use mobile apps that kind of provide guided meditations and so forth , but I don't think that's what you're talking about . When you talk about your journey in terms of meditation , can you share a little bit more about what does meditation mean to you and what does it look like ?
Ryionyeah , um , you know , when I started meditation at the beginning is through guided meditation , and I use an app to guide my meditation . Actually , for the first six months , I would say so I've been in this journey for five years now , almost for four to five years . The first six months is all guided , but then later on , when I start to do unguided meditation , that's where we really start to see a shift , because actually , did you know that our attention span is probably around eight seconds ?
Ryionfor a human and it's worse than a squirrel , unfortunately . So fundamentally , I would say one thing for meditation has a lot of good reasons , but one of the good reasons as a leader and for professionals is that it helps train our muscle to focus by having a prolonged attention span . Itself it will . You will find a lot of answers within you and there is like there is a lot of knowledge and a lot of wisdom within us . Like at the beginning I said , we , our ancestor right and our , it's all inside us . The answer is also inside us , is in our dna right , but we , our brain and our mind is so annoyed , so much noise right and with social media , media and everything , so we can't hear . So through meditation and prolonged focus , we will start to hear , like um answer that is come from within , that is innate from our spark and our purpose . So that is actually for all the reasons out there . I would say this is the most important and most practical reason why it is useful for all of us .
JDI do believe that to be totally true , and the reason I believe it to be totally true is kind of two things . One , there's this bizarre thing that I think we all experience where we can sit and fester on a problem for hours . We can stare at a screen , we can really fester , and the answer almost always comes when you're not thinking about that problem . It's always been interesting and I observe that Equally . You know , I'm a master practitioner in neurolinguistic programming and when I went through the program to become a master practitioner in that space , of course I did a lot of work , a lot of practical work with other people who were going through that process , and we certainly did a lot of work in kind of engaging the unconscious mind and kind of creating that space for people to discover their own answers .
JDObviously , coaching is not about giving the answer . It's about helping people find the answer . And I found the same thing . I found that by going through those processes and by the way I still do , if you can help people get beyond the noise , help people dig into their memories , their inner coach , inner tutor , the answers are there . So I'm 100% aligned with you on that . But I think the space on meditation at the way that you're describing . It is something that many of us aspire to , but I think the bulk of us never find the time to get there . So I'm curious you know you ? You sounds like you started the journey similar to the way that I started , which is like I'm going to start learning through these guided meditations and so forth .
RyionYeah .
JDBut you've gone to this next level . What did it take ? I mean , for the listeners who are interested in getting getting better and deeper in this . What does it take to achieve that ?
RyionYeah , actually it's simpler than it seems . And no , john , you'll know me for many years now . I seems , and no , john , you'll know me for many years now . I don't like to make things complicated right , so the simpler the better . And I truly believe , because I actually , even in my most like , in the most busiest day with full schedule , I would say if you can do five minutes , just like when you wake up , before you brush your teeth , Actually , that's the best time , because this is in between state that you are fully awake , right , and it's still in the sleep states , to where you have this like the access , your alpha brainwave .
RyionThat's actually the best time . Just take five minutes . When you wake up , sit down , take five minutes to do the breathing exercise . If you can do that every day , I can guarantee that five minutes become 10 minutes . 10 minutes become longer as much as you want , because naturally your body will get used to it and will crave for more , because the body will feel the effect .
JDRight , okay , so it's habit . That's all it minutes , that's all . It's building that habit right , building that muscle memory to just go into that meditative state and make it a ritual . We're going to come back to rituals shortly , but to kind of make that ritual happen , I think that's sage advice , krishna , about it . And , frankly , if you can't afford five minutes in a day , then there's something very wrong with your day , exactly , exactly so .
RyionIt's really about putting the habits and you know , just say , knowing that , how important this can be .
JDIt's like just brushing teeth every day so when you and I had our initial discussion about this current venture , you talked about a sense that the world is going through significant change right now . We talked about , you know , some of the possible drivers of change . We talked about the tensions between the progressives and the conservatives . We talked about the religious contests that are going on around the world right now that seem to be brewing . We talked about the haves versus the have-nots somewhat superficial things . But to me , when you said that this world is going through a radical change , I kind of feel like I agree with you . Perhaps I think we see it in different ways . Okay , when you , when you think about this , this is the , the underlying premise behind your practice , is the change that's going on right now . But what do you ? What do you think of when you think of that change ? What's happening right now ?
Ryionyeah , it's you know the changes actually like like one . We have to acknowledge that every one of us have a different perspective of the world , right , and the world view is different , so everyone sees things in a slightly different angles . It's like you know , like us touching an elephant right , some touching the legs , some touching the trunk of the elephant like only all of us combined you know what an elephant some touching the legs , some touching the trunk of the elephant Only all of us combined know what an elephant looks like .
Global Risks and Adaptation Challenges
RyionBut I think I can generalize it a little bit , like while we spoke about AI . That definitely is a force and , unlike other technology , I felt that AI is something completely different because it could really . It's not like internet or Microsoft Office , that productivity tool . Ai is beyond a productivity tool , so it can actually take over more than 50% of what we do in general would be my guess , right .
RyionSo how do we transform in this AI world is key . So that's one thing we talked about already . We talked about you mentioned societal and political polarization . It grew in the past couple of years . Right , with this technology risk remain unchecked , and I mentioned AI , right , really , here .
RyionSo deepfakes , cyber attacks , are the huge threat in my opinion . So this is critical reason why we need to wake up from this autopilot life that we have , so we can fully have the clarity to discern the information presented to us . That's that's another thing , right , and february , I think it's like , yeah , february this year . I think there's an official announcement from washington post in the past 12 months , the earth was finally 1.5 degrees Celsius higher than the pre-industrial times , crossing these critical barriers into temperatures that we never experienced . So , rather , this will create more natural disaster or not . I can't predict , but as a human being and as leaders in the companies , we need to find ways to protect ourselves in terms of when natural disaster hits . And if more natural disaster comes , like , what do we do ?
RyionSo that is another new risk that are coming in to the society , right , and other things that less people talk about , um , but it is very significant , actually is from a space perspective , nasa in this month actually the last month , may 2024 right , a barrage of large solar flare launched tons of clouds of charged particles and magnetic field toward the Earth , creating one of the strongest solar storms to reach the Earth in the last 20 years and possibly one of the strongest displays of auroras on record in the past 500 years . What does that have to do with us ? If we look at a bigger picture , our Earth and our planet is also influenced by the space weather . So , from within the Earth , technological , geopolitical , economical , environmental changes combined with this space weather phenomenon , it can really either push us into the realm of fear and overwhelm us with that if we don't really take actions , or , at the same time , it could become the beginning . It could become the beginning of something new , because we really have to innovate , we nearly have to create something so that , as humanity , we can rise above right .
RyionSo I feel like we're in this era when we're like the caterpillar , have been there for a long time , finally going to turn into butterflies , and it's up to us to rise up like a butterfly or we fail . So that's the reason why there's a calling for me to choose this path , to hopefully rewrite our language and our story , so that I might not honestly , I might not know how much I can change , and you know how much we can change and how much we can change but at least I know that when I leave this world I want to . At least I know that I did my best .
JDSo , wow , there's a lot there and it's really interesting .
JDAnd I think maybe the one thing you didn't touch on that was going through my mind at the same time as you described everything you just talked about , which I'm aligned with 100% , is the fact that we're just coming out of a pandemic that affected the entire world that , frankly , none of us were prepared for , right , and so I think it's interesting , as you say , as you describe what you described there .
JDI think one of the things that struck me a while ago is that since the end of the Second World War , overall , things have been pretty comfortable around the world , right , I mean , yes , we've had wars and sicknesses and so forth , but nothing of the significance of the Second World War that impacted so many people as we had then . But we seem to be going into a period where we're so close to things of that kind of magnitude happening , whether they are conflict or whether they are disease or whatever they are . I think that's really , really interesting that you talk about it that way , and it's almost inevitable , with all of these factors going on right now , that we are going to have something that is of this level of magnitude Again to me . I find it quite interesting . I saw a COVID sticker on a train the other day and I thought we don't even talk about it anymore . It's like it almost never , happened .
JDright yeah , but if I think about how we had to adapt . It's incredible .
RyionIt was amazing , right . So I actually , you know , if you kind of look back , I see almost COVID and the whole pandemic is like a trial for human to see how fast we can adapt to changes and how resilient we are , and I think we actually have proof that we could . Right , I would never imagine a company can switch like this , going from physical to virtual almost instantly . So we are actually when it presented to us a threat . We can change . So now , after the pandemic , more and more changes are coming and we see that . So that's why I see that the pandemic is a trial run and then more are coming , and we cannot forget how we did it during the pandemic , because we have to do this again and again and again . Actually , it's part of our evolution at this moment .
JDAnd that is my grave fear is that we did so much and , frankly , I think we handled it exceptionally well . And for those folks that don't know , I moved to Singapore just at the beginning of the worst period of the pandemic and I got to say I think Singapore did an amazing job in how they managed it there . They were incredibly effective and efficient . It was the right place for us to be . But I do look at the pandemic as being interesting in the sense that everybody around the world was impacted , regardless of culture , race , age , political , whatever . It affected everybody .
JDAnd I think it was one of those unique periods in the world where we all had a common challenge and we all had to deal with that challenge the best way that we could . So I I'm with you ,
Leadership Coaching and Vulnerability
JDryan . I think what you describe makes a ton of sense in terms of we don't know what it is , but we know change is going to come and we know that , that we need to have our enterprises and our leaders ready for that change , and I think that sounds like the , the mission of guishi . It sounds like your mission absolutely so .
JDSo , with that in mind , you know , like I know , coaching engagements , these kind of engagements are always nuanced depending on who the leader is and the company is . But if you could give me a sense of what would it look like if I came to you as one of your customers at the beginning of that journey ? What do you bring and what does an engagement look like ?
RyionYeah . So I would say one of the key differentiators in our coaching and I say our because it's a question brand our coaching is really not to target a specific problem Instead , because , like we talk about it like if it relates into the client's inner being and their energy , because that's the root cause of all external issues , right ? So common patterns and in in the professional world , often we see self-doubt , imposter syndrome , perfectionism or even like overachievement it is actually is a negative patterns in a way , right . So from my initial conversation with clients , I can kind of really , instead of listening to all the like the service program , what I listen is what's their core essence , right , and what are the negative patterns . So then I'll be able to articulate what are the patterns that are clouding , that is , covering their core essence and the spark or purpose of them .
RyionSo that was one thing that is quite unique that we do so with them . Then we use tools and to support the clients to release these negative patterns . So and then help them shift their mindset . When the mindset shift actually is instant . Usually the challenge is lies in having the courage to walk to that switch and flip it Right . So the process will be depending on the client on how receptive they are and also how deep is the belief that is engraved in them .
RyionSo , that is the two things that we do . For some clients . I also use an external assessment tool called the Leadership Circle Profile . Use an external assessment tool called the leadership circle profile . That tool actually is great because it's identifying the underlying beliefs and assumptions that are affecting their behavior patterns . So this requires feedback from at least eight people , so skip-level managers , direct managers , peers , direct reports , etc . To provide a 360 degree baseline . And using that baseline allowed me to even further support my clients from a specific leadership role , so that usually we do that as well . So one thing is that my typical engagement is no more than five sessions . It's actually relatively short compared to the markets and we've offered money back guarantee if the client do not see results Because we trust that either they can really change the mindset , and if they don't , then maybe they do not resonate with our approach then we'll give them back the money .
JDWell , that shows a lot of confidence in what you're doing . I think that's fantastic . I'm curious . I'm a leader and I've worked with a lot of leaders as well . We're not always so great at vulnerability , and what you're describing sounds like a very vulnerable process . Right , you're going to tell me where I've got negative thought patterns , negative perceptions , where I perhaps am not as conscious about things around me that I need to be conscious of , and , damn it , I think I'm a pretty good leader . You're going to tell me why I'm not a good leader . I'm uncomfortable with that . So how do you cross that bridge ? How do you create that level of trust and vulnerability from those leaders ?
RyionYeah , actually , from my experience , the vulnerability comes quite naturally once we build a trust right and because it's one thing that I think the most , a lot of the leaders fundamentally do believe that one to be vulnerable actually itself is courage right , like Brene Brown and a lot of researchers and professors talk about that nowadays , so it actually makes it easier than probably even just five years ago . Vulnerability is a disgrace of courage . So from that perspective , I felt that most of the client , even though at the beginning was skeptical , but once we build that trust and know that , I actually can see their strength first and that's why I call it that we identify their core accents and that is where it comes from . I actually see the strength and from that strength I explain to them why your strength is not shining 100% because of this pattern .
RyionSo for them they actually feel more empowered already by me calling out what I see in you . Then we kind of just polish the diamond , in a way empowered already by me calling out what I see in you . Then we kind of just polish the diamond in a way .
JDLook , that resonates with me a great deal . Actually , I like that approach . I've used what we'd call strength-based coaching in the past and I do find that in fact , go back to your Amazon days . I do think that's what we do when we talk about superpowers , is we talk about identifying those strengths but then , um , accelerating them and lifting them up in terms of elevating them , in terms of of how they're applied . So I think that makes a ton of sense is a far more positive and less threatening approach , uh , to having that conversation . So that's , um , that's a a logical approach to it .
RyionRight . And the strength itself is not only the external skill set strength , right , it's actually your core strength , right . So the core strength is very grounding and you know it . When you know it , when someone says that you have a certain core strength that is within you , you will feel the groundedness that is actually nailed to the ground and that's why then , when you start even talking about the negative patterns , it doesn't impact them as much .
JDWhat's your approach to identifying what you believe those core strengths
Self-Empowerment Coaching and Personal Identity
JDare ? In the past , what I've used has literally been to go back to where people have felt they're most successful and then digging deep in terms of what were the attributes that they were applying , the strengths that are applying to be successful . Often they don't know . By the way to helping them to discover what those strengths were , what's the approach that you use to discover what those strengths are ?
Ryionyeah . So when , when we first have the intake conversation it's not just about business , I actually go 360 degree like talk about everything from their personal beliefs , right . We talk about their family . We talk about their relationship with the environment , about their physical self , right as well , like the and the other health habits and what do they eat . So we do like actually a 360 assessment because from that conversation and the word and the language that they use it can then we can easily pick out what is their core essence like . If it's just looking at one aspect , like in at a career level , it might miss a lot of things , because actually a lot of the core essence show up better when it's when they talk about their relationship , a personal relationship with families , their support support system , their environments , et cetera .
JDYeah , it's interesting you say that , because I think most of us think that we have an at-work persona and an at-home persona . I think we tell ourselves that they're completely different , they're completely isolated and of course , they're not .
RyionAnd that's where coaching can easily go to the wrong way , because if we only see one aspect , then we are fixing not the core issue . We're fixing the persona that someone wants to like , want other people to perceive .
JDYeah , yeah , yeah , and I talked about that when I did the imposter syndrome episode a little while ago , where I talked about the fact that we all have this external persona that we present , and if you think you know a person based on that external persona , I'm sorry , I've got some bad news for you . We all have a persona that we present . It's when you understand yourself your true makeup is when you can do that . Again , I'm fascinated by this . I think this is a a tremendous approach . It parallels some of the work I've done in the past , but I think the way that you're applying it , um is super . The . I guess the big question for me is you know what is a what's a perfect outcome ? I mean , if , as a client , after five weeks of engaging with you , what is the absolute penultimate outcome that you're aiming for ?
RyionYeah Well , a perfect outcome ? I think it will . You know , people , usually a client , come with one problem , but then they live with a whole new way of experiencing life , and what I meant by that is that they will feel fully empowered , experiencing freedom , peace and joy from the bottom of their heart . They can make heart-led decisions instead of the fear base which I mentioned earlier . So the fear no longer in your driving seat , the driver's seat . So then they can lead fearlessly , with humility I think that's actually very , very important for me Fearlessly with humility .
RyionI think that's actually very , very important for me . Have that balance between the fearlessness and the humility right , so that they can inspire others . Agile resilience we talked about , you know , with all the changes going on and advocate for co-creativity , right , so that is no longer just a one-way street . Everything has to co-create with the employees , the customers , the community and everyone . Right , so they become a whole system thinker right . And with them their presence rather I call it an executive present , or actually I like to call it the energy presence , fully illuminating across the entire organization .
JDSo that would be the perfect client if we can achieve that right um , do you find you said it's about a five-week engagement or I guess that varies from client to client , but do you find clients who've completed that engagement with you and have gone on their merry way you know , enhanced if you like are they coming back to you for top-ups ? Are you finding they're coming back to you at times ?
RyionYeah , so actually we do follow-up in three months for a , and that top-up for us actually is just more catch-up and see how they have changed . But one thing I must really emphasize is that the coaching itself would not change you . You change yourself , so the client has to change themselves . We are more like a tour guide .
JDWe figure out how to go .
RyionHere is how it works they give you the roadmap , but if they don't , they go home and then they forget about everything . That will the final change will be very minimal . At least they're open , but they have to do their own change and really go within , because , ultimately , I think that our experience , we are like a scientist of self right , we experiment right and that's how we learn , that's how we grow . And if we wait for someone to fix us or wait for just receive a knowledge externally , without us experiment it right , we become that autopilot that ai can do anyways , and that is not the goal of this coaching so this is about self-empowerment .
JDThis is getting to a point where you've you've gained the insights , you've gained the tools , you've gained the methodologies . Now I have at it and , and we have a user manual . But if you don't operate it properly , then yeah , Hopefully you're making your services redundant because now they're empowered with the skills and capabilities .
RyionThat is the goal actually . Some people said that , well then , your business model will fail because people don't need to come back to you . But I think that's okay . If that actually works , then there's a lot of people that we can work with .
JDWell , hopefully , they're telling 10 of their friends what a great job you did and they'll come to you . That's obviously the wish , isn't it Right ? So I want to go back a little bit , ryan , to where we started this conversation . So , as I acknowledged up front , uh , you've made this monumental shift in terms of your career and your focus and and and where your energy is . And I'm always curious when people do that , because a lot of your network , a lot of your friends and family , know you as the , the financial control , yeah , yeah , the finance guy , right , um , and so , as you made this shift , did you find that that you had to explain and justify the shift you were taking , the risks that you were taking ? Was that something that you were presented with as a challenge and how did you address that ?
Ryionabsolutely , and I think it's not only explaining to friends and family . From time to time I try to explain it to myself . But actually the hardest part is when I go into , like professional events and I not introduce myself as hello , I'm ryan , I'm the svp or the directors of so and so . That was at the beginning for me , felt very uncomfortable without those external validation .
RyionSo the powerful question came in one day it was like when I and all of my title are stripped away and title , not only including the professional title , but title as a son , as a father , as a husband , I stripped out all those roles and titles who am I ? And it was a really painful journey at the beginning . But it's like just building muscle , because I never built that muscle to say I'm Ryan , I am Ryan , I don't need any external titles for it , and that muscle kind of has to build up like for for a period of time until I get comfortable that I go into at a big event and say , hi , I'm ryan , right , and I don't need that other support like a crutches , like so . So that was actually hard at the beginning to transition from someone with high-profile titles in a great company to just being me .
JDIsn't that interesting , and I really relate to that . So , gosh , I've done my share of networking over the years as well , of course as part of my role , and it is the norm to walk in and announce myself , as you know , the regional operations leader or the regional security manager or blah blah , blah .
JDThat's me , right , and of course it's not me . I agree with you . I love that and in fact , when I lived in the US , it always fascinated me . The introduction always seems to be here's my business title and here's where I went to university , and if you know those two pieces of things about me , then you know who I am . Of course , I never went to university in the US and so it was never even relevant , but I love that and it's interesting .
JDWhen I first moved into coaching , in the period of time that I'd taken out of the enterprise world and did coaching and then I was networking a lot , the classic was always to walk in and say hi , I'm John and I'm a coach , and it's a little bit like saying I'm an encyclopedia salesman . The minute you say you're a coach , right , you get that reaction . And so my approach was to say I never introduced myself as a coach . I used to say hey , and I work with leaders to help them fulfill their capabilities , and so forth . It's a far more interesting conversation , but I really like you've gone a step further and you've said actually , what I'm concerned about is I'm ryan , that's all you need to know right now that's so empowering once we figure that out .
RyionBut it did take a very long time yeah , yeah , I look .
JDI had plenty of those conversations where you'd introduce yourself as a coach and all the people that were there mingling having coffee would make excuses to go away because they were frightened .
RyionRight and I feel like why do I have the need to explain and announce what I do to fit into some like other people , like um thinking and and so that they can align ? Okay , where are you compared to my social circle , etc .
JDEtc which we're all doing right . The minute we we do that , we're like doing hang on . Is this guy more more successful and important than me or less ?
Ryionand is he ?
JDmore than me .
RyionIt's kind of funny how we do that cold yeah , class , and then when you stop doing that , you throw people off a little bit and actually start to create even more meaningful conversation .
JDThat is honestly they're asking you , then ryan , if you don't , if you're not leading , hopefully they're now curious now that I'll start asking you and that creates discussion
Embracing Vulnerability in Professional Growth
JDand so forth . I love that . I . I really I'm going to try that . That's awesome . Hi , I'm John . That's as far as it goes . So I think you know we've given the listeners , I think , a pretty good sense of what you're doing and what your purpose is . I think it's fascinating and very important in this day and age . But clearly we've also shared that you've had on a pretty interesting journey in terms of that transition from controller to what you're doing today . What's what's been the biggest hurdle , what , what's the most significant thing you've had to overcome on that journey and how have you done that ?
Ryionyeah , I think I never really think of things as a hurdle in a way , because it's more just a just part of the path , right , but I would say that , as I going into this journey with Grayshoe , it is that a lot of people come to us . They try to fix problem without wanting kind of like you pointed out earlier , wanting to touch the vulnerable side of them or heal themselves or remember who they are . So the work , or , like the , our approach , is super effective if they're willing to dive deep with us . I love the word diving deep because it is like my amazon blood . But just instead of diving deep into the business side , I dive deep into myself and our , our core being .
RyionSo I think that approach actually we have to recognize that it's not for everyone . So I think at the beginning it's like oh , everyone would be like really love our approach . So we have to be at peace with that . Our approach isn't for everyone and some of our clients we actually like some of the potential clients . If they are not ready with our approach , we're very upfront about it and we refer them to someone that they might resonate with more right . So building this trust and credibility , I think is the key for us , one client at a time and just be patient . And I think you know I am someone that , like patient is not on top of my list . So doing like being patient is one of of the hurdles that I have been embracing .
JDAnd I can imagine that certain potential clients aren't right at that time . They're not ready at that time and maybe it is just a timing thing for some folks . You are you know , it does sound like a major component of the recipe for success here is that willingness to be vulnerable . I love that you mentioned brené brown . I think the work that she's done on vulnerability and shame is remarkable her first her first ted talk was just incredible .
JDIt was . For me , it was was so , uh , such a revelation to have somebody talking the way that she talked , and I've never forgotten it . So I'm not at all surprised that you fall back on Brene and her mindset around vulnerability . I think it's incredibly powerful . But I would say that I can imagine that some of your clients , depending where they are in the stage of their career at that time , are okay being vulnerable and not okay being vulnerable and maybe it's a matter of now isn't the right time . That's okay .
RyionCome back when it's the right time , yep exactly , and that's how how we feel with , like , everyone that come across . Rather , we can help them or we help them by referring them to someone . Even either way , we , you know , give our our biggest support . That is best for that person is our goal .
JDWonderful , that's awesome , If you could talk to you at the beginning of this journey as you were stepping out of that thing you were doing before and starting this journey
Embracing Paradoxes
JD. You know , what do you know today that you'd be telling yourself back then .
RyionWell , in many ways I'm still at the beginning of my journey . There's a lot of Amazon thread with me , similar to the Amazon mantra of it is always day one . We're just reinforcing this notion of trusting the process and continue to do what I , what align with my passion and my spark , and he and I , and it's the same thing , even the what , doesn't matter the environment or external factors . If I keep finding this spark and I follow it . Now it become like my inner compass or my true north . So I will not forget what is going on , no matter what happened . So there is a lot of ups and downs and pivoting and shifting and how we position ourselves , etc . Right , but at the end of the day , we know our true north , so so then , so that is kind of like one thing that will not forget . Like at some point you know something . That is kind of like one thing that we'll not forget At some point . It's easy , you know , you kind of forget that . So that's one thing that I would continue to remind myself .
JDYeah , it sounds like you've embraced that culture of fail fast which I do think to your point is a very Amazonian thing is that we move quickly , we try things , but we do things where we can fail fast , learn quickly and then tweak and move on . That's what I'm hearing . There is that kind of comfortable approach to we're going to try this , we're going to observe and monitor what it does and then we'll fine-tune that to make it better the next time .
RyionYeah is that fair , absolutely the things that we want to be clear . Right is that you don't go this and then you just randomly go to different places , but it's like you go this and then come back , try different , come back , try different things . So we don't forget this this , this spark .
JDSo you have a baseline that you go back to and then you venture out from that . I like that . That's good . Um , who's been the most significant influence on you and why ?
RyionThat's a great question , actually , because I thought about this and then I split through my memory and then I was like actually there is definitely . I cannot name one person because there are so many , right , but I think that as life goes on right , there's different people in our life , big or small , but it is kind of like guiding us along the way . So I can't . Definitely there's a lot of important people in my life my mom , I think it would be one that is like really pushed me to be independent , my first boss , or like a long-term boss , like it's really the foundation of my leadership skill . Um , my aunt is trained to sit . My spiritual um side of , like my spiritual growth , my aunt's friend , my friend to sit 20 years ago did not know anything up until 10 years . Then it started to sprout . Then I have the spiritual awakening with my dad Actually , it's after he passed that meditation gift , I think , is the beginning of my spiritual awakening and of course , my co-founder , who is also my spiritual guide . So then , of course , is also my spiritual guide . So then , of course , also my wife and his my . She's my partner in crime and cheerleader through all the ups and downs . So I think a lot of this like there's I cannot really put one person in , but a lot of people . Um , when , I think your second question is on who do I model ?
RyionAnd I would say the same thing . I actually I never had idols when I was young and I don't really believe in modeling others , because we are all unique , no matter how similar we might think we are . So and I , since young , I felt that if I have to model someone else , I'm disempowering myself and give the power to someone to look up to , so it actually is the opposite of empowerment . So I guess the best way to answer this is I model the best version of myself , which is something that I have not yet achieved .
JDIt's a great aspiration , though . Isn't it not yet achieved ? It's a great aspiration , though , isn't it ? Um ? Yeah , look , uh I love that you talked about the , the meditation , and you talked about it earlier too really being sparked , uh , by your father and and , and I mean that's his legacy , right ? The reality is that the gift he's given you , um , is that seed that he laid , that now is blooming so incredibly effectively . So what a wonderful legacy that is .
JDI always ask this question because , in my own experience , you know , there were people who I was engaged with when I was 15 years old , when I first started working . There's things that I learned from my manager back then that I still go back to today , and it kind of amazes me at times just how , all these years later , how much influence those observations have on us . And so , again , I certainly respect the impact that your father had on you and how that's now become so fundamental to what you're doing for the benefit of others . I love that . I think his gift is now flourishing for many other people that you touch . That's wonderful , yeah , yeah , I hope I'll make him proud .
JDI'm sure you do , ryan . I'm absolutely certain you do with what you're doing . So I'm going to ask you a couple of questions here that I ask all of my guests consistently , and the first one is if you could only read one book for the rest of your life . If you could only like , it's a wide library but you can only have one of those books and that's your last book forever . What book is that ?
RyionYou're going to see my pattern here , john . No , none , because if I have to read one book , I would read my journal . Okay , because it captures all the quotes and important notes from all the books that I read , yep , anyway . So you see my greediness here . I don't confirm the one right , and it also , in like , recorded a lot of the patterns in my life that I told you . I like , like , we live like a sign , I live like a scientist of self and I experiment myself like what are some synchronicity patterns of my life , my learning , my drawing . So all this stuff is kind of like it's a , it's a book and it's ongoing .
JDSo if I have to read one book , I want to read a book that is ongoing well , and given we talked about ai , actually it's quite interesting you say that because , uh , I'm hearing now about this whole ai concept which is literally doing . What you're talking about now is it's just gathering the gems of your experiences and your learning and so forth and automatically compiling a journal of the gold that comes out of that , and then it becomes a reference for you later on and when you're getting to my age , you start forgetting everything . That's what you need .
RyionYou need to help you remember that stuff actually I think that our own journal is not only for ourselves . Because of AI , because of the technology , our own journal will become a legacy for future generations . So imagine now your grandchildren , and everyone can actually go back to your own journal and say , oh , this is how my grandfather learned his life and this is all the books that he read . This is so powerful in a way , and I can't wait for this to happen .
JDIt's truly an incredible concept , scary , and I just wanted to edit out the bad bits right and just give me the good stuff . But yeah , I love that a lot . So I think you've already touched on this as well . But you know , is there a hack or a habit or a ritual that you have on a daily basis that gives you your superpower ?
RyionYeah , there is one that is , but one that I . There's quite a few , but one that I actually like I don't know , have you heard of a paradox statement that we use ?
JDI have not Educate me .
RyionYeah , so paradox actually , because all of us in living in this paradox world . So , for example , one day I feel that I'm really lack of confidence . And then I will ask myself why am I so confident that I lack of confidence ? Or I can't make up my mind .
Ryiontoday , and then I was like why am I so decisive in not making up my mind ? So this paradox mindset helped me shift my perspective and kind of just make myself laugh as well . When I'm talking to myself it's like this is so silly . So this is kind of one hack that I know I used to kind of fit my mindset .
Finding Courage Through Nature and Movement
JDSo why am I so courageous to admit that I'm frightened ?
RyionSay that again , sorry .
JDSo why am I so courageous to admit that I'm frightened ? Exactly you got it am . I so courageous to admit that I'm frightened . Exactly , you got it . I love that . That is really interesting . I'm going to play with that . That's really cool .
RyionYeah , it's actually kind of fun once you kind of figure out what's the opposite of it . Not every word , but a lot of them .
JDWell , it's kind of interesting , right , because the word that stuck with me as I said those words to you wasn't frightened at all , it was courageous , and so it's interesting . It's actually reframed it , and I'm a big believer in reframing . It's actually reframed the whole internal dialogue just by making that one statement . So I'm stealing that . That's brilliant .
RyionPlease , please steal it .
JDThere's no trademark on it , it's mine All right , I love it .
JDThat's good . Trademark on it . It's mine , all right , I love it . That's good . Sharing is caring . I'm gonna practice the hell out of that . That's awesome , all right . So when , uh and I'm sure there've been moments where you've had to do this as you've gone through this this most recent journey setting up grishy but when you've needed to kind of invoke that superpower , when you've needed to have that , the energy and the and the courage to do something , that's really a stretch . What's your rocket fuel ? Where do you get that from ?
RyionIf it's like small things that I just need , like a small burst of energy , even like a funny animal Instagram post , like look at funny dogs for a few minutes actually will do I can . Okay , okay , I'm happy and then I can do my work . If I need a longer period of deep works , then I will do a more proper routine , and two things that I like enjoy doing is walking bare feet on grass or swimming in the ocean , because actually both of this is the gift from our planet to ourselves to charge our body . We are actually like a battery , like our body is like a battery . So if we need charge , actually just go to nature . Actually just go to nature and the benefit when you know , actually the soil , the soil has all the negative charge right from on the ground and we , when we are bare feet , and then you know , it just charged me .
JDI'm like a like , a like an iphone yep , yep , well , and you live in the perfect place to do either of those things . Absolutely , living in singapore , you're in a great place to go out there and walk in the grass or in the sand . I think that's really healthy , yeah , so let's reverse that . What's your kryptonite ? What takes the energy out of you ? What will sap that energy from within you ? Lack of movement .
RyionSo I think , like everyone is different , but my body is like an automatic watch movement . I need movement to transfer energy and wind , my mainspring , and what I think that's what we call right . So most people need rest when they get sick , but I need to walk and work out to feel better and my wife is like why are you going out ?
JDyou're sick yeah , I think you and I are similar in that . Ilk , I can tell you that this two months I spent in the wheelchair I almost went out of my freaking mind .
JDSo , um , the movement thing is is really real yeah it's very real and , in fact , uh , I've mentioned this on previous podcasts , but one of the things that I've started doing um from time to time is doing walking meetings . Particularly if I've got lots of phone-based meetings going on , I put on my headset and I just walk and I find the meetings are just as effective and I'm significantly more effective . So that's been one of the things that I've done as well .
RyionAbsolutely . It's way more effective when you're outdoor and have some fresh air , seeing the plants , even just the small plants . I don , seeing the plants , even just the small plants . I don't mean the big trees , just the small plants like one butterfly , you know , it kind of really releases a lot of happiness in the body Changes everything .
JDCouldn't agree more . No , I'm 100% with you . That immobility thing is just horrendous in terms of energy . All right , last question for you , ryan , and it's a . It's a , it's a choice here . Um , you can , and I've got a feeling . I know what choice you're going to give me , but you can either give me a memorable , high impact quote from somebody famous or your worst dad joke all right , I will choose the worst dad joke , okay , and I will kind of play with it with my kind of our gracious stuff here .
RyionSo question is why did our energetic being need coaching ?
JDWhy did our energetic being need coaching ?
RyionI don't know , because they couldn't resist the urge to talk about their frequency issues .
JDOh , no , yeah , Okay , all right , I think that qualifies , I think that gets there .
RyionQualified to be the worst step .
JDYeah , all right , you did it . You did it . You actually shocked me . I was absolutely convinced you'd do a quote . That's fantastic , but I love that . That's awesome . This is definitely the new Ryan . That's awesome , all right . So thank you again for sharing so much today . This has been fantastic . If my listeners want to make contact with you , what's the best way to reach you ? Absolutely , so we have our website .
RyionWe should G U , I , s , h , I dot Io , One of the best things that I think for anyone can do come to our website . There is a call , a new event page , because every Saturday , 10 am Singapore time , we host a free webinar called Kui Shu Life . So we have we host it for about actually 23 sessions already and ongoing . We try to do it every week unless we're traveling , but otherwise we keep that like up and we talk . We have topics from like wide range of topics , from ego to purpose , to this month actually , because it's a wellness month . We talk about physical being and our elements fire , water , earth and with all , this topic is to help us how to continue to upgrade ourselves and really understand ourselves as a human being and how do we experience life . So join us and you know you can sign up easily on our website and then , yeah , and then join us whenever you can . That is the best way to experience what we do .
JDAnd are the recordings of previous webinars still up there that they can be accessed ?
RyionNot yet right , right , but we are and thank you for asking , john because we are working on um kind of like a small subscription , but it's not like it's very , very small , but because , like , and we have to edit our , our videos because there's a lot of like um q a that we might have to remove for privacy reasons . So we are working on that . Then we will post all of them in the future . That sounds wonderful .
JDYeah , that sounds like some good content there , so it would be great to have that there . All right , well , we'll make sure we include those links in the notes for today's session . Again , ryan , it's been so good to see you again and awesome to hear the good work that you're doing now . I'm incredibly excited about the approach that you're taking . Hopefully , listeners , hopefully you got a lot of value out of that . By all means , pop up to the Facebook group JD's Journal . I'll post a link to the podcast there as well as the JD's Journal site , and if you've got questions or feedback on this episode , happy to hear from you . I'll make sure you got Ryan's contact details as well and , by all means , reach out to Ryan if you've got questions about the services that they're providing there as well . With that , thank you , sir . We'll be back with another episode of JD's Journal in a couple of weeks . Thank you , john . Thank you . Have a wonderful week everybody .
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