JD's Journal
Having roamed this planet for six decades, and after 47 years of full-time employment in a smorgasbord of roles and locations, I'm sharing the gems I've gathered plus the wisdom of other remarkable leaders and innovators who I've encountered along the way. I don't have a clear destination yet, but based on my historical experience, it's certain to be a dynamic and unpredictable adventure. Welcome aboard!
JD's Journal
Jacqui Dwyer on Musical Theatre, Teaching, and the Pursuit of Happiness
Join me for a heartwarming exploration as my youngest, Jacqui Dwyer, pulls back the curtain on her vibrant journey in musical theatre. Experiencing an international childhood, Jacqui's anecdotes paint a picture of a life rich with creativity and the pursuit of purpose through the joy of the stage.
The seas of the performing arts are ever turbulent, with success post-university an unpredictable voyage. Jackie and I dissect the casting process intricacies, where the right fit can eclipse the highest skill, and share a candid look at the often hidden battles with imposter syndrome. We celebrate the thrill of mastering complex roles, exemplified by the task of being a swing in a show as spirited as Come From Away, and bask in the adrenaline that courses through a performer's veins.
We close our conversation on a high note, sharing the inspiring story of Ellery Ward, whose acoustic renditions of Stephen Sondheim classics have carved a distinctive path in musical theatre. Between the laughter and the candor on mentors' impact, life's juggling act, and the pursuit of authenticity, we find solace in the art of mindfulness. With personal rituals and a dash of 'rocket fuel' passion, we're reminded of the profound satisfaction found in a life attuned to the arts. My deepest gratitude to Jackie for this enlightening exchange, and to our listeners, an invitation to thread kindness into your lives.
Hi folk, and welcome to the JDs Journal podcast where, every couple of weeks, my guests and I share some of our life's journey our successes, our failures, the valuable lessons that we've learned on the way and the resources that we've gathered that have allowed us to survive, prosper and thrive. The opinions and perspectives shared on JD's Journal should be taken and applied with your own good judgment. Episodes of the podcast are largely unscripted and unedited. I'll do my best to keep things on topic, but you can expect some occasional glitches and a little meandering along the way. I hope, if nothing else, you find that entertaining. Now let's get this episode started. Hi folks, welcome to JD's Journal. This is JD, and it's great to be back with you again.
Speaker 1:Today we have an incredibly special guest. Ladies and gentlemen, our guest today is none other than my youngest daughter, jackie Dwyer. Now, apart from being my baby, jackie holds a bachelor's degree in musical theatre from Griffith University in Brisbane, is a graduate of Brent Street and the Talent Development Project, and when she isn't performing, she works with Aussie kids coaching them as young as five to be performers. She also makes a pretty awesome espresso, martini. It's about time you did that again, by the way, and she plays a mean game of canasta and is one of the best huggers that I know, and anybody who knows me knows that I'm a hugger, and so from that perspective I think she's pretty awesome. Anyway, jackie, did I introduce you appropriately, or is there something that you'd like to add or change in that introduction?
Speaker 2:No, that was pretty much me to a T. I'm a drama teacher of many kids in Victoria at the moment and hopefully picking up another teaching job next year, which I'm very excited about. And yeah, that was pretty perfect, I might say.
Speaker 1:I've got to say I'm really excited that you're working with kids. For anybody that knows Jackie, you'll know she just has this natural charisma when it comes to kids of all ages. They just gravitate to her like magnets and she lights up. When you see her working with those kids, you can see the joy that she goes through and she experiences working with the kids. So, jackie, I think you know we'll talk about Ikigai in future podcasts, but I think to some degree the mix of your talent in performing and your passion in performing and this magical ability that you have with children is is actually your Ikig. But I may be wrong. We'll see how that plays out in the future. I'm excited to see how that plays out All right, so we know what you do oh, go ahead Jack.
Speaker 2:I was going to say I think it's just because I'm a big kid myself, so I just relate to them. To be honest, it's nice to stay young and energetic and they really bring that out of you if you're open enough to receive that. So, yeah, it's such a ball. I love it.
Speaker 1:That may be true. I've got to say, as an old guy going through my second childhood, I think I'm a big kid as well, but I don't think I have the same passion for working with kids that you do. But, yeah, maybe that's it. I like that All righty. So now that we know what you do, I want to ask really, you know, what do you think is your greater purpose? What you know? What is your mission on this planet and why?
Speaker 2:That's a really big question. Look, I think I've always been a people person. I think I've always been about people, supporting people, helping people achieve things that they want, making people feel good. I think I learned so much of that from you and from mum. I think we've always been people, people and I was raised empathetically and I just I love learning about people. Like I said, I love supporting people. So I think I don't know, I think people are my purpose and somehow I found that entertainment is such a big part of my life and what keeps me going. So if I can provide that to other people with the knowledge of how that positively can impact people, then that's pretty great. I hope that is a full enough answer.
Speaker 1:Well, again, I know you well. I've kind of known you for about the last 24 years, but I think that makes a lot of sense In terms of performing. Mum and I knew you were going to be a performer when you were about a year old. If there was a stage, be that the dining room table or the coffee table or whatever, if there was a stage, you were on it and you were on it capturing the attention of others around you. So it's never been a surprise to us that you were going to be a performer.
Speaker 1:And certainly I've seen how you are in terms of wanting to do things for people and support people and so forth. So I think that rings very true. And again, I think, when I think about the make-up of you, all of those things come together quite beautifully in terms of what you're doing today. So I think, again, you've found your place. So I think that's a perfect mission and I love that. It's exciting. So where you are today, as you just said, you're in Melbourne. You've graduated now. You've done quite a lot of study, starting at school, and then, where you are today, you've just finished a national tour of Winnie the Pooh, which was very exciting for you to go on your first professional gig as a national tour, which is pretty cool, but can you share a little bit more of your journey? I mean, you've had a pretty interesting life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. From the age of three I was overseas for 12 years, country hopping with you guys. So I was in Seattle for five years, then Ireland, england, germany and I really discovered performing arts as I went along, like in Ireland, I was in the choir at school. In the UK and in Germany I found more of my public singing and really gravitated towards that sort of performance. And then when we moved back to Australia probably 2014-ish we all did Cats together and I'd listened to musical theatre since I was a young child and I loved it. And I think that was the first time that I was like, oh, this is something I could really do.
Speaker 2:And then I got into Nepean Creative and Performing Arts High School in Penrith and I realized, based on the support and the the positive reaction of my teachers, that, oh, I could. I could make a career out of this, I could make a life out of this. Um, you know I I'm probably not too terrible. Um, so I just kept on there and I graduated doing drama and music and music advanced for my HSC Um, and then I took a gap year and I worked and I did gigs as a part of the talent development project, which was awesome, just to understand what doing that, that sort of you know gig lifestyle is, um, and then I was like like no, I want to do more tertiary studies. So I went and I did uh, brent Street. Amongst all of this, I was doing amateur musicals with Blue Mountains Musical Society, which kept me going and kept the fire alive and um. And then I did Packerman Productions Pro-Am shows, which were really beneficial in having uh people to look up to in the industry and to go. I want to achieve that level of performance. How do I do that? And I think that really drove me towards that extended education that I got in my bachelor after I finished my diploma.
Speaker 2:And here I am today. I, you know, six months out. I somehow managed to get into the cast of Winnie the Pooh, the national tour, which was you know heaven. I'm such a Disney fan, so being able to do a big touring Disney show first, six months out, was nuts to me, and being a swing as well. For anyone who doesn't know what a swing is, a swing covers a number of tracks in a show, um, at the same time. So I was covering for Kanga and for Christopher Robin. I only got to do Christopher Robin once, but that was a wild experience because they threw me on uh, halfway through the show, um, which was wild and fun and there's so much thrill involved in being a swing and the challenge. I'm always up for the challenge of learning as much as I can and chucking myself into it and going. I wonder what happens, I wonder what's going to happen, I wonder what's going to happen on the other side. So it's been pretty great, pretty fun and I'm keen for more challenges along the way.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that. No, it's been an interesting journey, no question about it. You mentioned Blue Mountains Musical Society and I'm sure BMMS is going to come up quite a lot in this podcast series because they've played such an important part in our lives. As Jackie mentioned, you know, very early in our return to Australia 2014, we had this ridiculously fun and interesting experience of all four of us my two youngest daughters and my wife and I auditioning and getting into the show Cats and being on stage together and for me that was my first musical theatre experience and to do it on stage with both of my young kids and my wife was remarkable. It on stage with both of my young kids and my wife was remarkable.
Speaker 1:And coming back to Australia and moving to a different part of Sydney than we'd lived before, bms basically established a foundation of a community for us and they continue to be very much a family for us, even though we're sitting here in Singapore right now. We've stayed quite connected to BMS. So, again, you're going to hear about them quite a lot and a fabulous experience In terms of your national tour. Seeing you do that was just remarkable as a dad, seeing you, as you said, so quickly out of graduation. Being on a national tour was just quite remarkable, and so I was thrilled about that.
Speaker 2:So you know, as I said earlier, from my perspective as your dad.
Speaker 1:I've seen you with this passion for performing since you were about a year old. But now you've had this experience now where you've kind of been in the real world and you've seen what's going on. You've gone through that at times, I know, quite challenging learning journey as well. Has there ever been a time that you doubted your decision to commit to musical theatre? Have you ever thought maybe I've gone down the wrong path?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah. I think any performer that says that they haven't at least once is lying, like it's something that we deal with day to day because half the job is rejection. I think I did the stats. I've auditioned for 24 shows this year, separate productions. I've gotten a callback audition for about four or five of them and I got one. So the odds are tricky when you're starting out at least, and so of course that makes you question hmm, am I really cut out for this? Is everyone having a similar experience to me in terms of the amount of output and the results that we're seeing? And the answer is no.
Speaker 2:There are many people who got straight out of uni and got onto giant touring productions and just have not stopped working since. There are many people who have not gotten work at all in the last year. There are people who have strayed away from it, people who have left the industry at least for a little bit, just to get to know themselves outside of their performance. Because it is, it's tough, it's really rough. Even today I'm still like oh my god, is it going to keep happening?
Speaker 2:Was Winnie the Pooh a fluke? Which, of course you know. That's a very narrow-minded way of thinking and you know it's something that we, we work through. But yeah, absolutely, I think it's so common to question this, because the results aren't always the best indicator of skill, because it's not always about skill. A lot of the times it's about being the right puzzle piece for the production, and skill doesn't even get involved. So it's a tricky thing to think about and it's a tricky thing to think about and it's a tricky thing to understand the great, vast world that is musical theatre, theatre, entertainment in general. But these are the starting steps for me, so I've got so much time ahead, so I won't be quitting anytime soon.
Speaker 1:Good on you, and we were talking about imposter syndrome in some future podcasts as well and I heard a little bit of that that kind of mindset there that says I don't deserve to be in this arena, I don't deserve to be in this space, and we all face that.
Speaker 1:So it's an interesting and frustrating emotion to go through. But I do want to acknowledge that every one of us, regardless of our title, regardless of our role or whatever, at some point it's going to feel like we're the fraud, we kind of snuck in under the radar and we're not supposed to be there, and it's a nonsense thing to think. So I'm glad that you're committed to that. Do you think having a mother who's been involved in the direction of shows and having your own experiences on the production side of shows helps you rationalise those times when you're not chosen? I mean you talked about the fact that sometimes the choices of casting is more about the look of the character or the fit with other characters and so forth, as opposed to the particular talent. Do you think that kind of wisdom comes from that experience?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely. A classic one that I've heard so many times is if you've got a romantic male lead and then if you've got a romantic female lead that you want to cast against them and they're significantly taller per se than the male lead, it's harder to sell that, especially if it's like a dainty princess and a prince or someone that you need to be like a powerful masculine character. There are some things you can't control. There really are, and you it's just got to be like. Well, that's my lot.
Speaker 2:Let me find a character that suits me. I mean ronda birchmore. Like she's's not short, but she's had a great career. Maybe she hasn't played as many of those sort of dainty female, ingenue type characters, but she's made a place for herself. And I think that's the most important thing is, if you be very true to yourself and to what your brand is and what you're offering, then there will be a place for you.
Speaker 2:It might just take a little bit longer than it takes other people to find that place, and seeing it from that production team perspective is so important and I'm so glad that I've gotten to hear bits and bobs about that side of the process from mum. It's very, very useful perspective to have it's. But even as a teacher like I'll be casting plays with my kids and some of my kids it could just be down to the type of characterization that they gravitate towards. Suits one role over another? Yeah, it's important to take the am I good enough? Out of the equation and think how can I suit this aesthetic, this character, this world that they're trying to build in front of me?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's, it's so important no, that makes a lot of sense, all right, so I want to ask you a question. You're going to hate me for this question, I'm sure of it. Um, but what is your absolute dream? Absolute and ultimate?
Speaker 2:what role do you play? The hardest question to answer in the musical theater world, because there's just so many different projects that I want to be a part of and and people want to be a part of. Um, the one that I've been thinking about recently that I want to be a part of and people want to be a part of, the one that I've been thinking about recently that I just think, god, that would be so cool, is to be a swing on a show like Come From Away. For anyone who doesn't know, that show Come From Away is a 90-minute show with no interval. It's a verbatim musical, all about Gander at Newfoundland and how they dealt with 9-11. They had 38 planes randomly land on this tiny little island and their population tripled. It is the most beautiful score, the most beautiful storytelling I've ever seen. It's so clever and magical and I think all of the characters in that show are so beautifully written. To be able to swing on a show like that would be amazing, because each character plays a number of different characters, there's different dialects, there's different types of songs. Oh God, it would just be the funnest, most challenging, fantastic thing ever. I think that would be very, very fun, and for me.
Speaker 2:It's so funny to think that being a swing would be the dream, the thing I gravitate towards, because being a swing is tricky. You're not always on stage. When I was in Winnie the Pooh, most shows I was off stage doing in states, which was awesome and fun and oh god I love it. But, um, you know, the thing that you assume is that, oh my god performer is on stage all the time, let's go give me the big lead role. But the challenge of covering that many tracks is actually what, um, thrills me and I get my kicks out of the spontaneity and and the I wonder what's going to happen. Um, that happens when you're a swing, uh, so yeah.
Speaker 1:One of my favourite shows. I love it, no question about it.
Speaker 2:It's so gorgeous.
Speaker 1:Sorry, come from away. A magical show, yeah, yeah, I'd go and see that again. Your mother and I have committed to each other that we are going to make it to Gander one day, just because we're so enamoured with the whole concept of this little Canadian place that's actually quite Gaelic. In terms of its culture, it's a very interesting place, but, yeah, terms of its culture, uh, it's a very interesting place, but uh, yeah, love that. It's awesome, all right, so let's talk about more challenging things. So so you know, can you, um, can you share with our audience? You know what's, what's been the most significant hurdle or the challenge that you've had to overcome on this journey?
Speaker 2:you know what's, what's been the biggest battle for you you, um, like myself, 100 myself and and my self-esteem and my imposter syndrome. Um, I think when you dive into an industry like this, you have a plan and you have an idea of what goals you want to hit and and what space of time you kind of want to give yourself to hit those. It doesn't work like that in musical theatre land, because you can't control what gigs you get. You just got to audition for everything and see what sticks. And I think even in those first six months before I booked Winnie the Pooh, I was auditioning for everything. I threw my hat in the ring for every single show I could find in Melbourne, even in Sydney, in other places, and it just felt like nothing was sticking. And I kept getting in my head in the room and thinking, whoa, they're not going to like this side of the way that I do this performance, or you know, I I didn't sing that as well as I did at home. Um, and after facing that, many like not getting into shows, because when you're at uni you do every show, um, but just not having something to be involved in, you're just like, oh god, maybe I'm not good enough for this, maybe they were just boosting me up at uni, just to you know, I don't know hope that that I take that boost and do something with it. But it was really scary that first six months I was like, oh, I'm surrounded by people that feel like they're getting lots of big work and I still can't get to a final callback. What's going on, what's wrong with me? And you always turn it on yourself. You're always like what am I not doing? That's enough. But, like I said earlier, there's so much else at play that doesn't actually involve you or your skill set. Um, so it's just finding the right fit.
Speaker 2:And it took me a while to rationalize all of that. Um, I was really, I was really lucky at the time that, um, I kind of was like well, I got to be realistic with myself. I've got to just keep doing the retail job, keep teaching, keep you know, just keep on keeping on. And I've got to just keep doing the retail job, keep teaching, just keep on keeping on. And I've got to be patient and kind to myself. The point that I decided that that was my mindset. Two gigs landed in my lap. One of them was Winnie the Pooh, and then I was offered another overseas contract and I had to choose between them. So it just fate does a funny thing Whenever you're feeling a bit ick, you never know what's around the corner. So you just got to hold on is what I've learned. So yeah, imposter syndrome is a giant thing and I reckon you'll be talking about it a lot on this podcast.
Speaker 1:You are correct, it'll come up quite a bit in every topic. I love that. You said that fate, the universe, whatever you want to call it does these things, and I think, uh, I've, I have experienced and observed that for so many people, uh, around me as well as it, when, when it all seems like it's, it's desperate, suddenly things happen, uh, and and, and they come from nowhere, in the least expected places, and certainly when I talk about my career, there's lots of that as well. So I love that. So, yeah, that makes perfect sense, jack.
Speaker 1:So you know, we may have some folks listening to this podcast today who are contemplating a profession in the performing industry. They might be thinking about going into the performing industry, whether it's musical theatre or any other facet of the performing industry, and, firstly, my position on that is go do it. I think it's fantastic. But you know, I guess the question I want to ask you is this if you were able to talk to the Jackie at the beginning of this journey, if you were able to talk to Jack, you know, when you were making that conscious decision that I'm going to pursue this, given what you, where you are now, what you've learned, what would you want to tell that, jackie. What would you want anybody who's about to embark on this journey to know?
Speaker 2:Um, trust your gut, trust what feels right to you, absolutely work on yourself and and, and you know, go get the therapy you need. Go, like, take care of yourself, um, etc. Stay healthy, stay mentally healthy, um, but trust your gut, like I think there's there's so many times as a young person where I was like, obviously the people around me know better than I do about things concerning me, which is not always the case Like there were definitely moments where I was given advice by friends, by beautifully well-meaning friends, that just did not serve me, um, and my gut knew it and I should have stuck to my guns about that sort of thing. Um, yeah, I think I think, trusting yourself, trusting what you have to offer, working out what that is, working out what makes you you, you know what, what the core of your product, brand, personality are, and sticking to those and highlighting those because they're the exciting bits that people want to see. People don't want to see you copy other people, or people don't want to see what they've seen before. They want to see something that is unique and personal and special.
Speaker 2:Um, and if you do that, if you show that, I just don't think you, you can't not be successful. Eventually I yeah, there's a there's this amazing um singer, musical theater performer named Ellery Ward um and she's just written two very successful acoustic Stephen Sondheim albums and released them. After many years of not getting work, she just went. I don't want to sound like other people anymore. I want to sound like me. I want to develop my own brand. And she went and she did that and she found success by creating work for herself out of what she loves and what she's passionate about. Yeah, you have the power within yourself to do what you want to do, so just get out of your own way and do it.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's freaking awesome. I think that's fantastic and tremendous advice. So, apart from your mum and dad, who's had the biggest influence on you, who do you model?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, there's just so many people. I think you know they say it takes a village and it really does so many people. Well, I was very lucky to be in a production of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat as the narrator, which, if anyone knows that show, is a giant role she sings for like the whole show, and I was about 16 years old at the time and absolutely was obsessed with musical theatre, but not in a great mental space about myself and about my trajectory. And I managed to get that role at such a young age and our director, brittany Shipway, became such a mentor for me and I was so eager and absolutely annoying but like she just embraced me and she took me under her wing and she's been one of those people that, even after time has passed, is still super excited about my career and excited about what I'm up to.
Speaker 2:And I remember when I told her about Winnie the Pooh she cried and it just felt so special and affirming that someone who I look up to so much as a performer and as a creative, as a writer, as a director, as a dramaturg, everything that she does would care so much and value what I do and what I have to offer so much. It just lifts you up and it makes you want to work harder and it gives you that oomph to keep going. So she's definitely someone I think about a lot whenever stuff happens. So thank you, brittany, you're amazing, you're a legend.
Speaker 1:So, as a parent, I have to be transparent here and say that two things One, the show was amazing and the narrator, jackie, was incredible. Not that I'm unbiased, I was very biased, but she really killed it. And, as she said, it's a gruelling show for the narrator because you are literally on stage for the entire show and a focal point for the entire show literally on stage for the entire show and a focal point for the entire show. I also have to say transparently, you know, we were opposed to Jack doing that show. She was in the height of her high school certificate and so we were like this is not the time to be signing up for a show that is this demanding.
Speaker 1:And so we were the ogre parents at the time who said this is not a smart thing to do, um. But we said we agreed and she went ahead and did it, um, and killed it, and I think you know uh, to me that's, you know that it's really testament to her commitment to what she does, um, when she's in, she's all in um, and so you know, I think that was maybe may have been the point where, uh, where, where mum and I went, maybe this is it, um, you know, maybe, maybe this is what she's going to do, um, as her, uh, as her future, but anyway, it was, um, it was an incredible show.
Speaker 1:I never forget it, um, and it was a tremendous experience being in the audience for that one. I think I made every show, I think we were there for pretty much every show of the 10-show season Of Joseph, my God it was awesome. Anyway, I digress. That's really great. I'm glad you shared that. So lots of good successes there. What's the most embarrassing or humorous experience you've had in this career so far or in this journey so far?
Speaker 2:oh god, do you know what it's? Yeah, do you know what this? This career? You really bare your soul. Hey, there's no hiding.
Speaker 2:So I've had a number of auditions where sometimes you you walk into the room and you're like this is what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do it, it's be great. And then you start singing and you kind of like blackout and it's probably a nerves thing, it's probably an anxiety thing. But I had one. It was a ripper of an audition. I was really excited about it. I was going back to circles where I I I knew some of the production team and I knew people who were accompanying me. And I walked into the room and I started singing and I was just like not in my brain and so I was just like singing at the wall but I was like I'm not thinking about anything. And then I'm like okay, you need to look like you're thinking about something, because it's too late to start thinking about something. So I just kind of like very slowly lift my arm up to the back wall and then drop it, and then I stopped singing and I was like that's the worst audition I've ever done in my entire life. I stood there like a wet fish and sang some song and lifted my arm and I was just like, nah, mate, never doing that again. That was so boring and I just, oh god, I feel so bad for that panel. I was like, oh, that was so awkward. Um, so that was a moment and a half.
Speaker 2:I remember slipping over in a production of the Sound of Music that I did with you One of the nights. I was running off, I was Liesl and she does the wee and then she runs off stage and I went to run off and I slipped and I had a massive fall on the ground. I think there was something wet on the stage I'm trying not to assume what it might have been, given many kids on floor, but something wet on the stage and I slipped and I looked up at the audience and I tried to laugh it off and I ran off stage and I was like, oh God, that was a time and a half. Do you know what? There's so many. There's so many in this profession and you've just got to go. I'm going to be an embarrassment and that's okay, it's entertainment.
Speaker 1:Yep, absolutely, I think you know, I agree with you. There are so many that I can think of for all the people that I've performed with who have had some mistake at some point. I think to me, a great performer is somebody who can continue on and just move forward through that, laugh at themselves, shake themselves, whatever they have to do to do that. Yeah, that's funny. So you've had the experience around the world more than many have had. You've lived in five countries, you've done a lot, you've visited a lot of countries as we were traveling and so forth. Um, how do you feel like? How do you feel that's influenced the person that you are today?
Speaker 2:I think I'm really open to change, um, because my childhood was was making a new batch of friends every three to five years and then changing my entire living circumstances. So I got very adaptable, which is probably why I love swinging so much, because I feel comfort in the instability of change, because that is my stability, woohoo, yeah. Yeah, I got super used to change, which is really healthy, because the world is never stagnant, it's never still, it's always shifting. And I got so open to people and to new people and to learning about people, and I really learned how to watch and how to listen, which are very important skills for any industry, but particularly in musical theatre, listening is so crucial. Yeah, yeah, I just it opened me up and it gave me perspective that the world is a lot bigger than just you and your immediate surroundings. Yeah, there's so much peace in the bigness of the world because you know your little issues that come will go, because there's many on a daily for many people you know across the globe.
Speaker 2:So yeah, just openness, so open.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, yeah, yeah, I can get that. I can echo that too. That's awesome, yeah, yeah. No, I can get that. I can echo that too, I think, having been a bit of a world traveler uh, it's, uh, it does. It creates perspective that uh is quite unique. But so we've gone through a lot here and I appreciate your transparency as we've gone through this jack. Um. It's been pretty non-controversial too, which is good as a parent, I'm pretty happy about that god but, uh, the great experience that you've shared with our, with our audience here.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate that. So there's a couple of questions that I include in every podcast, um, really for the benefit of our listeners, and uh, and the first one is if you could read only one book, so you could choose one book, imagine you're stuck on a desert island, there's no other way to get any information or whatever, but you've got one book that you can choose to read for the rest of your life. What book would that be and why?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, I've got two that have popped into my head. One is a non-fiction, one is a fiction. Can I give you? Both've got two that have that have popped into my head. One is a nonfiction, one is a fiction.
Speaker 1:Can I give you both? I'll let you have both. You get it. You get a free pass. There you go.
Speaker 2:Great, okay, cool. My nonfiction is a book called, uh, big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. She was the same author of Eat Pray Love the same author of Eat Pray Love. It's all about finding the magic in creativity, inspiration, living beyond fear it's about. It's an amazing read. It's kind of my creative Bible, if you will. My nonfiction, no sorry, my fiction. There we go. That was my nonfiction. My fiction it's kind of an oddball one, but I've rediscovered it recently and I'm like God, this just puts me in a good place. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, the first book, human and in a way, despite it being sci-fi craziness, it's quite realistic to people and to the human condition and I think in its absurdity it gives so much perspective on life and living life and openness, as we spoke about. I think there's so much openness for the unknown and the random in that book. I just think it's such a great read and and the humor is delightful and, yeah, that would keep me going, I think.
Speaker 1:I gotta say that Douglas Adams books, uh, are go-to books. For anybody in the audience who hasn't read the Douglas Adams uh Hitchhiker's Guide series of books, check it out Brilliant series, or the TV series or the radio series. I've got the radio series on CD as well and I adore that. They're all different, by the way, they all kind of meandered away from each other a little bit as they progressed, but a brilliant series of books, no question at all. I'll include both of those books in the show notes for today's podcast as well. But great, call out um. The creativity book is not a book I'm familiar with, so now I'm going to check it out. It sounds fantastic, so thanks for sharing.
Speaker 2:It's amazing yeah, no, I will all right um oh, sorry, when I, when I was starting my third year, production was 42nd street, our director, alistair Smith, who is an amazing um Aussie director. He's. He's just finished directing Elvis um did Cruel Intentions and the Wedding Singer um, he's brilliant. He told us all to read that. He was like you all have to read this book. It's it's mandatory reading um for for any of my casts, um, and you know what it took me until the beginning of of my first year out. It took I moved to Melbourne in in January and I went into a bookstore and I was like there's that book that he mentioned to me and I read it and I just think it couldn't have come along at a better time.
Speaker 1:Um, so yeah, and it's one you go back to by the sound of it yeah, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:If I'm ever feeling in doubt, I'll just go back and feel the magic, etc. Yeah to me that's.
Speaker 1:That's the magic of a great book is. It's one that you keep handy and you you reach for when you need guidance or inspiration or or a laugh. That's the key, is that that's the book I go to nice, nice call out. I'm a big believer in habits and the power of habits and and uh and rituals. So, um, one of the questions I always ask my guests is is there a ritual, is there a hack or a habit that you've adopted that's had a significant impact on your confidence or your success?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean a lot like bits and bobs. I think I've just moved to a little one bedroom flat in St Kilda and I'm about a 10 minute walk from the beach. So most mornings I'll get myself a coffee and I'll walk down to the beach and I'll just sit and I'll listen to some music and it's almost like meditation, but moving. I always found like strict, structured sit down and meditate meditation. I don't know, I couldn't make it stick, it wasn't happening. But this just going for a walk, putting some good tunes in whatever sort of vibe I want to set for the day, I'll pick an album or I'll pick a musical and I'll just go to town, I'll sit with my coffee and I'll look at the water and chill out and have a think about what I want to achieve for the day or for the week or whatever it is. That's my little morning ritual.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it may not be meditation but that sounds like mindfulness to me.
Speaker 1:Um correct, yeah, absolutely great routine, yeah yeah, bring it and and uh and listeners, uh, whatever represents mindfulness to you, in whatever way you approach it, I do recommend it. I think that we are so bombarded with external noise and influence and social media and goodness knows whatever else, 10 minutes a day of mindfulness, in whatever format that takes, can make a huge, huge difference. So good on you. I like that, jack, thank you. So I want to ask two kind of opposing questions next, and one of them is when you need to evoke your superpowers, when you need that burst of superhuman energy or inspiration or whatever, what is your rocket fuel?
Speaker 2:um billy joel. Billy joel is my rocket fuel. I, yeah, if I, if I chuck on a Billy Joel album, I'm like come at me, world, let's go like. Music is such a big um mood setter for me, it drives me so much I I constantly have music in my ears playing in my house. Everything um Billy Joel hits different. I don't know why. It's just a bop. I love it um. But it oh a new one that I've discovered. Sammy Ray and the Friends great band um their their album that's got um Talk it Up. That song oh, such a bop, good walking tune. But that album is incredible and it just kind of lifts my spirits and gets me rearing to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's something to be said, yeah music.
Speaker 1:That's it. Yeah, all right. So the flip of this is what's your kryptonite? You know what is the thing that will sap your energy and how do you avoid it oh, there's so many answers.
Speaker 2:I hate that there's so many answers for this. Um, I guess, like closedness, because I'm such an open person when I encounter like closed-minded people or like in theater, there's a terminology called blocking. If you're doing improv and someone makes an offer and goes, you know let's go to the shops. If the other person who you're acting against says no, I don't want to, that's blocking the offer. Any semblance of like blocking in my life, whether it be from negative people, whether it be from my own head blocking me from doing or thinking about things blocking that's the biggest thing. Any stoppage, any presentation of positive energy gets my goat.
Speaker 1:So we all must experience that right. Everybody has has folks around them who who have that attitude or have a a fixed mindset. Going back to Carol Dweck and coding Carol Dweck has that kind of mentality. How do you cope with that? What's your strategy for dealing with people or dealing with situations where you encounter that?
Speaker 2:oh gosh, I guess I'm still, I'm still developing my strategy. But I just think, when you, when you highlight those energies or those, those people, and you, you realize, oh okay, that doesn't quite align with me, um, just like diverting, diverting from them, maybe you know, drips and drabs of contact and communication with them, because there's some people you just can't get through to. Am I right? Or am I right? There's some people that you just can't, oh, you just can't break through that barrier, so you can't try to change people, you can't try to fix people, so you just got to go around them and keep going sometimes. Yeah, I guess that's my answer.
Speaker 1:So I'm hearing avoidance is the strategy.
Speaker 2:Like unfortunately accurate, yeah, avoidance and, I guess, a reminder of your own personal morals and a reaffirmation of the things that you believe. Make sure that you don't. I'm such a people pleaser. I'm working on that. It's a work in progress but like making sure that you don't assume that what everyone says is aligning with what you say in your inner voice, et cetera.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, yeah, one I have to relate to what you say. People with closed mindsets drive me bonkers and frustrate the hell out of me. I think you probably get some of your openness from mum and I, in terms of our attitude to the world as well. I have evolved myself a little bit and it comes out of, I think, my coaching background. I've adopted more of a curiosity position. It's like I wonder why, like what is it that creates such a block for them? What's going on for them in terms of their resistance to entertaining something new or seeing things from a different perspective? So I probably approach it from the perspective of almost an experiment to some degree, to try and work at what's going on in their head. Sometimes that's successful. Sometimes that makes matters worse for me, so I probably shouldn't do it.
Speaker 2:You know what, though? You're so right. I think compassion and learning and curiosity is such an important perspective to have for everyone. I think if there was more listening and more compassion in the world, we would be leaps and bounds ahead of where we are today.
Speaker 1:Well, sometimes it's as simple as what the hell would make somebody think that's stupid.
Speaker 2:I don't say that I mean yeah, oh gosh.
Speaker 1:All right, this is my last question, jack. Wow, so you've gotten through the barrage of interrogation here and shared some great insights. That's really cool, but I'm committed to my audiences, to stimulate them or at least make them smile. So, at a minimum, I want folks to come away from each podcast with something that either they're inspired by or curious about, or they have a good laugh, and so my challenge for you is can you share with our audience either the most memorable famous quote and why it's important to you, or the worst dad joke you know?
Speaker 2:What do you mean? It's a dad joke Like doesn't that realm belong to you?
Speaker 1:Like, why Wow?
Speaker 2:Why are you? Asking me it's your job, you'll have job. Give me a quote, then jack oh god, I will.
Speaker 2:Um, and you know what? I don't know who said it, I don't know, I don't know where it is um, but the quote is smile, it's free therapy. I just can't think of anything that's more. Smile, it's free therapy. I just can't think of anything that's more accurate. I think, and it's a true thing, I know, that smiling can impact your hormones and gives you a dopamine hit, et cetera. But I just think life's too short. Life's too short. Just like find the joy, find the humor, just be silly. Look for the silly in the world, make people feel silly, like happy silly. It's such a crucial skill that I think we're losing, and I learned this at drama school. You know we call it a play for a reason Everything that we do in creative arts and acting, it's all play, and I think the art of play is lost in many adults. Everything that we do in creative arts, in acting, it's all play, and I think the art of play is lost in many adults. So I just think play.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I love that. I actually love that a lot. Actually, I think that's a brilliant mindset to have and certainly I agree with you, I think we have too little of that mindset. We take ourselves far too seriously, frankly. So that's awesome. Well, this has been fabulous for me. Talking to you in a way that I wouldn't normally talk to you has been interesting, Hopefully for our audience. You've shared some incredible insights as well, certainly some insights for me. So thank you very much, Jackie. This has been a great experience. Audience I'll be sending out show notes, including some of the information that Jack shared in terms of the books and that quote. I'm going to work out where that quote came from, because I'm super curious.
Speaker 2:Thanks.
Speaker 1:But thank you, jack. I appreciate your time today. It's been a fabulous experience talking to you today and audience. I hope, wherever you are, whatever you're doing, you're having a wonderful week and be kind to each other. Bye folks, thank you.
